Nutrition (boring!)

I finally decided on Dukan instead of Atkins mainly because I thought the range of food after Attack was greater therefor better nutritionally. However, on another thread someone said Dukan had lots of bad press regarding nutrition and no one sticks to it as it's so restrictive.

For those that have done both - why have you settled on Dukan and do you agree with the above?

I need to be sure I'm going to stay healthy but stay away from carbs too and looking at the recipe book, Dukan seems to use lots more variety of foods (yoghurt for example!).

Mandy - what attracted to me to Dukan was the emphasis on real fresh food and inventive cooking, rather than pre-packaged meals, bars and treats.

I love food, and I have really enjoyed being able to get back to the kitchen and cook the food I want to eat.

I despaired of WW for example because I could find long lists of points for ready meals, but none for a fresh artichoke, or chestnut, or a whole fresh pomegranate.

I haven't found it boring or restrictive at all so far - I used to have a long list of "celebration meals" lined up for conso, but I've crossed a lot of them off because I've lost the craving for, say, fish and chips, or risotto.

I also feel my nutritional has improved - I rarely ate dairy before I started, and my doctor was worried enough about to prescribe VitD and Calcium pills. My skin, hair and nails are stronger and glossier and I haven't had a cold since I started.

Sorry to pry - but how much are hoping to lose? How long would you need to be in cruise to reach your idea weight? That might have an impact on how restrictive you might find it...

Hi Mandy,

now I *can't* comment on Atkins! BUT I would not say that no-one sticks to Dukan proper! that might be a comment made by someone who's not tried it, and working on hearsay.

What Dukan *does* make you do is go back to basics as far as cooking is concerned. All prepared and convenience foods go out the window, including most flavoured yoghurts and lean deli meats.
If you're willing to invest a bit of energy and inventiveness this diet is not boring. I manage not to have the same breakfast 3 days in a row, and that's without trying too hard. Of course if you want it easy you might slip into a very repetitive pattern of eating, which on the other hand does suit some.

For me it's made me appreciate and eat more fish (all types, fresh, smoked, tinned, pickled) and also appreciate VEG. Apart from a few (mainly root) veggies that you should not overdo, all others are unlimited and with summer coming up that makes for very varied easy options.

Yes on PureProtein days it gets a bit more restrictive but you are still choosing from all low fat dairy, low fat meats and fish in general, eggs and vegetable proteins, and if you've already got the book and the recipe book that gives you some idea of the possibilities.

If of course you think you really need your cheese and cream then you might be better of 'on the other side' and I'm sure someone will be along shortly to comment.

[I see Atropos has already beaten me to it!]

BUT I would not say that no-one sticks to Dukan proper! that might be a comment made by someone who's not tried it, and working on hearsay.

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it was me who said it but not exactly like that. I said I personally couldnt stabilize on it!

LVLLT said:

it was me who said it but not exactly like that. I said I personally couldnt stabilize on it!

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Ah yes, well that's something completely different I'm SORT OF stabilizing but by sticking to SORT OF conso..

Ever one to choose her own song sheet...

Frankly, any weight loss regime ("diet") which has you cut out entire groups of food stuffs is not good, nutritionally speaking. Any diet which doesn't teach you how to eat nutritionally balanced meals is not good. Stabilising a weight loss after a low carb diet is a nightmare unless it's done gradually. People who diet for a wedding or an event soon discover that! There are months once at target weight on any of the low carb diets during which one has to watch it. Dukan lays down rules for that in phases 3 and 4, for those who bother.


I'm the first one to tell people with less than a stone to lose, without lengthy diet history, to do something else. Look elsewhere. I myself lost over 11 stone eating fruit, veg, carbs (initially, less so towards the end) - "healthily" I like to say.

But, for most of us here (with a few exceptions), we know the other diets. We've tried them. Endlessly.

So for someone who's prepared to put in the time, effort and work into doing the diet properly - all four phases - it's a godsend if you can find recipes you enjoy.

That's my take on it - we see a lot of new people, all fired up and raring to go (often without the book!), and we try to slow them down. Too often they jump in, feet first, without looking into it fully, and then disappear...

<not literally "disappear" you understand!!>

Anja, LVLTT - That's the bit I'm concerned about too! What do you find most challenging about the stabilisation phase? (forewarned is forearmed!)

The most difficult thing (for me) is that PP days become 'whiter' so more difficult to have varied menus. I've rejigged this (just for me) to 2 x PV (one conso-style with fruit/cheese but no bread) per week unless I have meals out (then I do PP).

Stabilisation is conso with a few tweaks. I probably have no more (and often less) carbs than when on conso, but they're spread over 5/6 days. I have cut out the routine galas too - sometimes I have 3 gala meals in a weekend, sometimes I won't have any for a month. I do have unlimited fruit though, I think that's the main positive change for me.

Yes, I agree with Laura on the description of Stab.

My personal problem is that the clear rules have gone (sort of) - except for 'the four'. So it's quite beneficial to stick to the conso rules, which is what we're doing, with a bit more freedom.

Personally I find PP Thursdays a doddle (if somewhat boring or repetitive). They are pretty white but (for now) I do occasionally have beef, and also cottage cheese (as well as FromFrais etc al!) So far I have only ONCE moved a PP day to Friday because of a social engaement - but I do lead a pretty uneventful life
Thursdays are easy because I have rules and I won't stray.

What is harder is the rest of the time, when I know the rules have been relaxed. Allow yourself the odd nice thing, but don't overdo it: one biscuit not two. Once a day not twice....

But I am quite relaxed about having 2 or 3 fruit portions a day (not bananas mind, but the odd grape )

I agree with Laura re: Gala meals. This week is the first time I have a 'proper' Gala: takeaway tonight, might be fish and chips or yummy Chinese depending on what the majority wants - and in a way it's great that I can say 'yes go for it I'll join you' and not feel guilty (you may have noticed that this word comes up a lot for me in relation to food!).

My home 'Gala' meals are usually normal meals which include something a bit less 'healthy/low-fat' than I cook the rest of the time. In the last few weeks that included (not all in one meal!!): proper quiche, sauce with cream, chocolate dessert, ice cream, pork sausage, fish pie, PEAS, you get the picture. Only a couple of times a week max, more likely once. And I have a drink (2 small glasses max in an evening) at the weekend - that's just returning to old habits, I did not really need to cut back on that front.

Stab allows me to enjoy things like cake - I made a birthday cake for my MIL this weekend, I had a couple of pieces at the weekend, but no more after while everyone kept enjoying slices of it up till it was gone yesterday...

I now have small portions of carbs with a fair number of evening meals, but am quite capable of putting in one or two PV conso days a week too, or skip the bread or cheese ration when it's not been 'used' elsewhere.

I'm still checking my weight week by week (or a bit longer this Easter period), and it's working so far. I've not yet had a 'proper' holiday, we'll see what that brings in May when we're self-catering in Spain with our extended family and I fully intend to join in the cooking / eating /drinking etc.
Then I'll probably come back and have to re-adjust, but then that's what happens to most people on holiday.

Oh another long ramble - SORRY!!!

Love your rambles Anja... mine are just that, rambles... yours make sense!

Maintainer said:

<not literally "disappear" you understand!!>

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Go on, admit it, Jo. You stick them in your cauldron, never to be seen again.

Anyway, what Laura and Anja write makes really good sense to me regarding Stabilisation. I do think that a somewhat relaxed (in certain areas) version of Conso is what will probably work best for most people. This allows you some sensible rules to help keep you on the straight and narrow, whilst still allowing you to eat in a reasonably "normal" fashion.

I envisaged no answers to my post - thank you all! ;-)

I'm on Cambridge at mo (ex-consultant). Packs run out in 3 weeks or so. List over 2 stone in 4 week (water! I carry lots) probably lose another 3/4's before I move over to Dukan. According to Dukan site I'll reach my target in November. Lots slower than Cambridge which I predict would get me to target by early august but since I list 5 st before and put it all on again I realise Cambridge just don't have any long term plans available - not something easy anyway!

I am really doing my homework! I've got the Dukan book and recipe book and the New Atkins one too. Read all cover to cover now. I was just worried about the nutrition comment in another thread but not worried now. I know the whole "omit a foodgroup" thing but isn't that what Dr Atkins set out to prove? That reducing your carbs right down wouldn't have the effect nutritionalists thought? And Dukan has more protein and less fat which has got to be no worse (logically speaking), surely?

After reading I thought Atkins was far more restrictive long term than Dukan. I love the idea of Protein Thursday!! And that I could go out for a meal if I wanted! And mushrooms!! I can live without cheese but rare steak and mushrooms!!! Omg!! I'd die!! Lol!!!

Thanks for your help! Definitely Dukan! All the way! I'm a determined lady (stubborn?!). Not EVER going through this again, even if I have to run 60 miles a week to keep it off!!

I hope you're not going to simply disappear now! You've raised interesting debate here, so you're a keeper!

Ex-consultant too, so you must have quite a few tips to pass on re the old psychology side of things...

I love the fact you're doing your homework way in advance - it's a really good sign. As the time nears, I'd advise having a crack at a galette and/or oatbran muffins before it's one of your life staples! They take a little practice! Also, some have trouble sourcing initially the correct fat free dairy so it's could to look around; work out some menus; get them approved... before starting!

Goodluck!

I'm interested in all the things you are saying. I don't really find Dukan hard, but have broken it when I don't think ahead enough so don't have the right food with me and crave carbs. So long plateau after 9lbs. I think I'll have probs in next few weeks as am going to niece's wedding in France then staying for brother's birthday ( a big one so big family party). Lots of food and wine, hard to resist.

Today is case in point - choir singing in Bristol tonight, so coach, rehearsal, back late etc. And food supplied by kind Bristolians. will take own but......

Hope your concert goes well Anja. I've one on Saturday too, same as tonight's, Jenkins Stabat Mater. It has some lovely bits but overall is over orchestrated so even choir of over 100 can't always come over.

Unnoticed going anywhere! I live that I can be confident in knowing exactly how to stay on track thanks to advice being given here! As I progress I've no doubt I'll have more questions!!

Psychology is one of the reasons I stopped being a consultant. Whether some are in denial or not, there seems always to be a psychological reason for our weight problems. Unless we all get help with this all of us are at risk of repeating the weight gain/weight loss/weight gain cycle. I don't know ANY diet that addresses thus adequately and I despaired of GPs reactions when my morbidly obese clients would broach the subject.

Anyway, back on topic! Thanks fir all the advice. Ice started going through recipe book and original book with a hilighter so I can work some plans out.

Will try muffins and gallets when I can actually local where the oatbran is in my local Tesco!!!

Sorry, fat fingers, little keys. First sentence should be 'Im not going anywhere!' and live is lOve!!

MandyMoo77 said:

Whether some are in denial or not, there seems always to be a psychological reason for our weight problems. Unless we all get help with this all of us are at risk of repeating the weight gain/weight loss/weight gain cycle. I don't know ANY diet that addresses thus adequately and I despaired of GPs reactions when my morbidly obese clients would broach the subject.

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Hear hear!!

I look forward to delving further into the "head work" with you. I for one regularly say it's what's needed, particularly for those who've been seriously overweight in the past. It's rarely about food, but finding what it IS about isn't an easy journey (I don't mean all of us have had something serious "happen" - just that it's complicated to delve into previously untrodden ground), and as you say it's a pretty solitary one with no help from the medical profession.

Maintainer said:

Hear hear!!

just that it's complicated to delve into previously untrodden ground), and as you say it's a pretty solitary one with no help from the medical profession.

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I totally agree - and it's an area doctors do not want to address (to be fair - good doctors know they haven't got the skills or resources to help and bad doctors won't even admit this.)

The other area of medical support and advice which is sadly lacking is post-menopausal care. I have Premature Ovarian Failure, and when my body shape changed and the pounds piled on I was offered no advice at all except "eat less and move more" - despite the fact that I was already on WW, and exercising daily. Nothing had changed except the balance of hormones - but even the menopause clinic had no advice. Then I read about Dukan in a magazine in their waiting room, and the penny dropped...

I am now at the lowest weight since my ovaries got stroppy, and all that fat on my waist has gone.

I think they need to stop looking at massively overweight people as lazy and glutinous and start looking at them as they would an alcoholic or other addict. Treat the psychological reasons and not the physical ones. Provide more support and assign a mentor.

I so wish I could do more.

Maybe we should each start a FA group in our own areas!? (Foodies Annonymous!)