JanD
maintaining since June'09
I'm still digesting this, I only opened it a couple of hours ago when we got back. I'm very interested to hear what you think. One thing's obvious - they don't think much of forums (fora?) xx
It's an OCR scan (don't ask me .... DH does these things) which is apparently why it hasn't recognised the signature as text so you can't see it. DH also removed my surname and our address, other than that it's in its entirity (although the spacing & stuff isn't right on the 'preview post' screen but looks okay in the edit box so I apologise but I'm sure you can manage!)
Lipotrim
17/06/09
Dear
Thank you for your letter. You have put considerable effort into communicating a selection of negative experiences with the support structure associated with Lipotrim, which I have to assume come from an online forum. While we regret even a single instance of poor communication between people dieting or maintaining their weight with Lipotrim products, and the medical, pharmacy or even help line staff, we do have an overwhelmingly positive feedback experience. A lot of problems actually derive from online chat rooms, such as Lipotrimusers.com, which are nothing to do with us and full of incorrect information.
Our pharmacy training programme was recognised by the pharmacy
experts and continues to generate major commendations from the ->
pharmacy staff we train. In addition to on site training of the pharmacist
there is considerable written and DVD material provided. Where
necessary due to staff changes, follow up training on site is often
provided . The training is done by the research scientists who
developed Lipotrim and have at least 25 years experience with its
medical and pharmacy use. The help line for pharmacy and medical
staff is used constantly as queries arise.
There are currently about 1000 pharmacies in the UK and Ireland and many hundreds of GP and also hospital programmes. When you consider the number of people involved in delivering the information and support, likely in excess of 10,000, you must realise that there can be some variation is their interest and capabilities. That is why we provide a considerable amount of written literature, and DVD and CD material to patients along with a freephone helpline that when possible is manned by our scientific and nutritional professionals. All serious calls are taken by the experts. Calls about which teas they can have or how do they handle a birthday cheat, are at times answered by others.
Some people confuse information they have read in chat rooms with the advice provided by Lipotrim. There are NO authorised forums and all the forums we have monitored contain wrong and sometimes dangerous advice. Everyone is provided with a carrier bag that is printed with almost all of the information required for safe and effective use of the diet. The DVD is available from the pharmacy and is also available on the homepage of the Lipotrim website. It is important that people watch the film.
We will try to deal with some of the issues you raise, but we maintain that the information we provide is based upon over 30 years of scientific, nutritional and medical experience and 23 years of medical use of Lipotrim in the UK. Our maintenance programme is the first physiologically based innovation for this purpose available anywhere in the world
We encourage people to call and tell us which pharmacy they have had a problem with. We do this currently and get both sides of the story and act accordingly. Clarification of the facts (they are not always as presented) and retraining pharmacy staff if necessary. All pharmacy staff are part of a professional team under the guidance of the pharmacist. All services in pharmacies are governed by standard operating procedures and following the standard procedures for Lipotrim are the responsibility of the pharmacist.
The recommended retain price is £36 female and £48 male per week. It is unlawful to fix a price. We cannot enforce prices for Northern Ireland and Eire.
Most queries arise from the use of the maintenance formulas which are designed for several uses. They are used a part of the refeeding week, for weight maintenance and can be used with food for weight loss. Information varies depending upon usage, as does the relevant information for an individual person's needs. With 25% of overweight people suffering additional problems with insulin resistance, guidance not to snack is given to those, but may not be relevant to another individual. There is no 'one size fits all' answer as we are dealing with individuals and the information we are given at the time.
Standard diet recommendations are to consume about 60% of calories from carbohydates. Day 4-7 on the refeeding builds on day 1 -3, so all normal meals need to include foods from the carbohydrate group. Our paperwork has proved very successful and we get very few people who do not understand it, but there will always be some who need extra clarification. The programme was developed by a UK registered nutritionist.
We have considered making breath strips, but this has proved difficult as the reason brand name products have been discontinued, is that manufacturers are not prepared to produce small volumes.
Emails are responded to. Sorry that you feel that they are abrupt, but this is not a good mechanism as the questions are often not conveyed with enough detailed information to supply a definitive answer. We also get an incredible number of emails that simply overload our inbox with uninterpretable or incomplete queries. Important and complex emails are most often requested to contact the help line for a proper answer and to assure the answer is understood.
We are well aware of all of the issues you have raised and would like you to accept that not all the postings in chat rooms represent a true and accurate description of reality. Many comments are based upon prejudice, bias or simply hearsay. Some are influenced by groups with their own agenda. All of the information we provide is based upon solid research, and a long history of experience.
The scientific programme at Howard Foundation Research Ltd, (Lipotrim) was recognised by the expert committee evaluating Very Low Calorie Diets for availability throughout Europe. Their acknowledgement follows:
Reports on tasks for scientific cooperation (SCOOP)
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY AND CONCLUSIONS
Task 7.3 - Collection of data on products intended for use in very-low-calorie diets.
Report September 2002
Reports submitted on behalf of the VLCD European Industry Group to the SCOOP working group on
very-low calorie diets between 1998 and 2001, consolidated 2001.
by , •-;; - ..... - . - •
John Marks MA, MD, FRCP, FRCPath, FRCPsych Life Fellow, Girton College, Cambridge CB3 OJG and
Jaap Schrijver . Manager Corporate Regulatory Affairs for foods for particular nutritional uses (PARNUTS) - Royal Numico NV Acknowledgement
I want to express my particular thanks to Dr Stephen Kreitzman and Valerie Beeson of Howard Foundation Research Ltd., who undertook a substantial proportion of the original research on which Section III, the 'Recent Scientific Studies' is based. Not only did they make available to us copies of their published work, but also shared with us much of the basic data so that we could convince ourselves that their results, which demonstrated substantial misunderstanding in much published metabolic work, could be thoroughly checked. On the basis of this, we were not only able to confirm the validity of the Kreitzman and Beeson studies, but from their bibliographies undertake cross checks of the errors or omission in the earlier work.
Once again, thank you for your comments.
I Biochemistry)
Dr S. Kreitzman Ph.D
R.Nutr (UK registered Nutritionist)
It's an OCR scan (don't ask me .... DH does these things) which is apparently why it hasn't recognised the signature as text so you can't see it. DH also removed my surname and our address, other than that it's in its entirity (although the spacing & stuff isn't right on the 'preview post' screen but looks okay in the edit box so I apologise but I'm sure you can manage!)
Lipotrim
17/06/09
Dear
Thank you for your letter. You have put considerable effort into communicating a selection of negative experiences with the support structure associated with Lipotrim, which I have to assume come from an online forum. While we regret even a single instance of poor communication between people dieting or maintaining their weight with Lipotrim products, and the medical, pharmacy or even help line staff, we do have an overwhelmingly positive feedback experience. A lot of problems actually derive from online chat rooms, such as Lipotrimusers.com, which are nothing to do with us and full of incorrect information.
Our pharmacy training programme was recognised by the pharmacy
experts and continues to generate major commendations from the ->
pharmacy staff we train. In addition to on site training of the pharmacist
there is considerable written and DVD material provided. Where
necessary due to staff changes, follow up training on site is often
provided . The training is done by the research scientists who
developed Lipotrim and have at least 25 years experience with its
medical and pharmacy use. The help line for pharmacy and medical
staff is used constantly as queries arise.
There are currently about 1000 pharmacies in the UK and Ireland and many hundreds of GP and also hospital programmes. When you consider the number of people involved in delivering the information and support, likely in excess of 10,000, you must realise that there can be some variation is their interest and capabilities. That is why we provide a considerable amount of written literature, and DVD and CD material to patients along with a freephone helpline that when possible is manned by our scientific and nutritional professionals. All serious calls are taken by the experts. Calls about which teas they can have or how do they handle a birthday cheat, are at times answered by others.
Some people confuse information they have read in chat rooms with the advice provided by Lipotrim. There are NO authorised forums and all the forums we have monitored contain wrong and sometimes dangerous advice. Everyone is provided with a carrier bag that is printed with almost all of the information required for safe and effective use of the diet. The DVD is available from the pharmacy and is also available on the homepage of the Lipotrim website. It is important that people watch the film.
We will try to deal with some of the issues you raise, but we maintain that the information we provide is based upon over 30 years of scientific, nutritional and medical experience and 23 years of medical use of Lipotrim in the UK. Our maintenance programme is the first physiologically based innovation for this purpose available anywhere in the world
We encourage people to call and tell us which pharmacy they have had a problem with. We do this currently and get both sides of the story and act accordingly. Clarification of the facts (they are not always as presented) and retraining pharmacy staff if necessary. All pharmacy staff are part of a professional team under the guidance of the pharmacist. All services in pharmacies are governed by standard operating procedures and following the standard procedures for Lipotrim are the responsibility of the pharmacist.
The recommended retain price is £36 female and £48 male per week. It is unlawful to fix a price. We cannot enforce prices for Northern Ireland and Eire.
Most queries arise from the use of the maintenance formulas which are designed for several uses. They are used a part of the refeeding week, for weight maintenance and can be used with food for weight loss. Information varies depending upon usage, as does the relevant information for an individual person's needs. With 25% of overweight people suffering additional problems with insulin resistance, guidance not to snack is given to those, but may not be relevant to another individual. There is no 'one size fits all' answer as we are dealing with individuals and the information we are given at the time.
Standard diet recommendations are to consume about 60% of calories from carbohydates. Day 4-7 on the refeeding builds on day 1 -3, so all normal meals need to include foods from the carbohydrate group. Our paperwork has proved very successful and we get very few people who do not understand it, but there will always be some who need extra clarification. The programme was developed by a UK registered nutritionist.
We have considered making breath strips, but this has proved difficult as the reason brand name products have been discontinued, is that manufacturers are not prepared to produce small volumes.
Emails are responded to. Sorry that you feel that they are abrupt, but this is not a good mechanism as the questions are often not conveyed with enough detailed information to supply a definitive answer. We also get an incredible number of emails that simply overload our inbox with uninterpretable or incomplete queries. Important and complex emails are most often requested to contact the help line for a proper answer and to assure the answer is understood.
We are well aware of all of the issues you have raised and would like you to accept that not all the postings in chat rooms represent a true and accurate description of reality. Many comments are based upon prejudice, bias or simply hearsay. Some are influenced by groups with their own agenda. All of the information we provide is based upon solid research, and a long history of experience.
The scientific programme at Howard Foundation Research Ltd, (Lipotrim) was recognised by the expert committee evaluating Very Low Calorie Diets for availability throughout Europe. Their acknowledgement follows:
From
Reports on tasks for scientific cooperation (SCOOP)
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY AND CONCLUSIONS
Task 7.3 - Collection of data on products intended for use in very-low-calorie diets.
Report September 2002
Reports submitted on behalf of the VLCD European Industry Group to the SCOOP working group on
very-low calorie diets between 1998 and 2001, consolidated 2001.
by , •-;; - ..... - . - •
John Marks MA, MD, FRCP, FRCPath, FRCPsych Life Fellow, Girton College, Cambridge CB3 OJG and
Jaap Schrijver . Manager Corporate Regulatory Affairs for foods for particular nutritional uses (PARNUTS) - Royal Numico NV Acknowledgement
I want to express my particular thanks to Dr Stephen Kreitzman and Valerie Beeson of Howard Foundation Research Ltd., who undertook a substantial proportion of the original research on which Section III, the 'Recent Scientific Studies' is based. Not only did they make available to us copies of their published work, but also shared with us much of the basic data so that we could convince ourselves that their results, which demonstrated substantial misunderstanding in much published metabolic work, could be thoroughly checked. On the basis of this, we were not only able to confirm the validity of the Kreitzman and Beeson studies, but from their bibliographies undertake cross checks of the errors or omission in the earlier work.
Once again, thank you for your comments.
I Biochemistry)
Dr S. Kreitzman Ph.D
R.Nutr (UK registered Nutritionist)
