Dog behaviour help

[Tinytootz]

I already do the crazy crossing over of the road, much to the confusion of Hugo. And when people are walking towards us (it seems to me mainly men) I tell him everything is ok, and talk to him, but a little tug on the lead when he starts to growl stops him launching into barking at them. He hasn't barked at anyone in weeks now, just growls if a man tries to talk to him, but I leave him to it, and often either apologise to said man, or explain that Hugo is scared, not angry.

Unfortunately, he doesn't chew shoes when we are around, it is only at night when we go to bed. I'm going to mention to OH tonight that we should confine him to the dining room and kitchen (I have no kitchen door) as at the moment he has the living room (where he often sleeps), the dining room, the kitchen, the stairs and the top hall! The sheer lack of doors is a bit of an issue in this house.

I've already had a male friend round since having Hugo, and I pre warned him of the situation. Hugo barked at him, and wasn't keen on letting him in the house, then promptly wet himself in fright. So he came in anyway, armed with treats, and made sure Hugo was happy with him before touching him. Then, we couldn't get Hugo to leave him alone, he found a new best friend!

It's difficult because everyone has different opinions. I was told that when he is barking, try to sooth him so he knows the situation is under control and he is safe. Then someone else tells me don't do that, as then he will think you are wanting him to bark. You should correct him, and take control of the situation. He is responding well to correction and being talked to whilst people approach, so I guess I'll stick with what seems to suit him

 

[Tinytootz]

He is a dog, confused where he fits in the pack. He needs to know it's bottom!
If your dog is bottom of pack he will not need to be aggressive to men, as that's pack leaders job to protect and warn of dangers. He needs to be shut away when alone with a stuffed kong and toys. You need to feed him last never before you eat. Walk through doors first. If he is in your way make him move, dont treat him like a human, he will not understand, it's not kind it's just confusing. There is a book called 'why does my dog' can't remember who by but google it. Order it today the best dog behaviour book I've read. So good.

Yup, he always gets fed after us, we go through doors first (still working on us going upstairs without him bolting past us!) and we do move him out the way. OH has always been at the top of the pack, I'm slowly moving my way up. However, I don't think the cat is budging from the top spot

 

[Zest for Life]

Oh good, make sure you get top of him. I had a dog that was always trying to get higher in the pack, had to keep doing all these things over and over. The dog I have now is natrualy submissive so we don't bother. Their all differant.

 

[Tinytootz]

They are indeed. I've been a bit too soft on him, that's the problem. But I've cracked down on it, and it seems to be paying off A halti harness has done wonders too

 

[Wegle]

We had a behaviourist come to visit us to help with our dog and the changes we have made have worked wonders.

First thing we have done is change Zac's food, he now eats and all natural wet diet instead of dry complete food. He doesn't eat this food out of a bowl he is given it in his Kong which is then frozen. This keeps him busy during the day while we are out so he is not tempted to chew, bark at people walking past, get into trouble etc. We also moved the furniture around in the house to allow him to have a set area that is his, this is his safe place where he gets lots of nice treats.

The second thing was we stopped completely giving him unearned attention. This helps to reassert his position in the pack. He does not get attention when he demands it but when he earns it. The way we manage this is by teaching him to do tricks. Start with the basics (Watch me, Sit, down, stand) and work your way up (Roll over, crawl, spin etc). By doing this you will be able to give him loads of praise and affection and he will be using up his mental and physical energy. A tired dog is a good dog.

We don't have our dog in the bedroom anymore and for the first couple of nights he did have accidents in the kitchen. We take his water bowl up at about 9 every evening and since then no problems.

How long is Hugo left for in the day? How much exercise does he get a day? Our dog is left for 6 hours each day and we were advised that this was a bit longer than desirable (4 hours max is best). We can't change this though so by giving Zac his frozen Kong before we go out he is kept occupied for a big chunk of that time now. It's really important to be getting lots of exercise (back to the tired doggy = good doggy). Zac now has an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening, then 1/2 hour trick training at home. This really tires him out. We have also started taking him to a beginners agility class which is great fun, good for socialising your dog, great for being able to give him praise and brilliant exercise.

With regards to the agression on the lead. Dogs have 2 responses when they meet a supposed threat, fight or flight. When they are on their lead they do not have the option of flight so will default to fight. The way to get round this is loads of exposure to what they think is a threat, for example Zac had a problem with bigger dogs, he would just go for them completely unprovoked. Now whenever we meet a dog I remain calm, keep talking to him, telling him he is a good boy, if he meets the dog even if it is only for 1/2 a second without lunging for them he gets a ton of praise, high value treats etc. 1 month ago I wouldn't have had him anywhere near a bigger dog, last week at agility he met a rottweiler on his lead and they became great friends and were even playing in the field together at the end of class. Could you do something similar with men? Rope in some male friends to "meet" you on a walk. As you approach them ask Hugo to watch you (taught in trick training) keep treating and ask him to watch you. Once the chap has passed cue you going nuts (GOOD BOY, WELL DONE, CLEVER MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! etc). Dogs do not have the power of reasoning that we do but they have great memories, so whilst he will never truly understand why he shouldn't bark at men he will begin to remember that the last time he didn't you were so happy and he got loads of treats and fuss.

As with any training the treat has got to be high value, it's got to be a higher value than the reward he thinks he gets from the behaviour he is carrying out. For Zac we use liver treats and cheese (he'll do anything for a lump of cheese!). Don't use the doggy treats you buy in the shops because they just aren't high value enough.

Sorry for rambling on and on there. There's a lot of other stuff that we are doing as well which probably isn't appropriate for Hugo but if you want any more advice I'm more than happy to try and help. Just remeber nothing is going to change overnight. Zac still has his moments when he just will not do what we are asking, when this happens though we just ignore it and move on to the next thing. There is never a need to shout at your dog or punish them. You ignoring them or not rewarding them is the punishment they will soon remember.

Here's the recepie for liver treats if you want it (be warned your house will small for a while but your dog will love you!)

Get any kind of liver (we buy pork). Simmer in a pan of water for 1/2 hour. Cut up into fingernail size pieces and arrange on a baking tray. Cook on low heat (180 C for 2 hours). Leave to cool. Bag up and freeze if necessary, make sure defrosted before using. The treats come out all crispy on the outside with a nice soft meaty middle.

Best of luck to you and Hugo!

 

[Shrimpy]

Darwin did this, and the ONLY thing I found to stop his chewing was "Grannicks bitter apple". That stuff is foul tasting but smells like nothing AND lasts, So a quick spray and the dog won't even THINK about chewing it!

 

[Kadoro]

Hiya, I hope you dont mind me posting, but I wondered if I could help in anyway. I am studying canine behaviour and also work for the RSPCA as a home-visitor in my spare time. I have previously worked with my own dog who suffered many problems and I am pleased to say he is a very relaxed and trouble-free angel now! If u ever want any help or advice feel free to message me. Amy x

 

[Tinytootz]

Wegle - thank you for your lengthy reply! Hugo was on Nature Diet, but it didn't agree with him, so he is on Burns with some human food titbits thrown in like veg and meat. He gets walked in the mornings, and in the late afternoons. Mondays he is on his own for max 2 hours, Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays same. Fridays it can be up to 8 hours, Saturdays not at all, and Sundays not at all. He also gets exercised in the house playing with his toys with us. As I said, the aggression on the lead is fading away now, he still hates the postman but I ain't overly keen on him either TBH!

He is already very obedient, and knows a few commands such as sit, lie down, paw, both paws, here, leave and stand, but I will aim to work on the others with him.

Shrimpy - I had to read it twice, I thought you meant the actual Darwin! Cute name though

And thanks Amy, I will bear it in mind. Going to try out the above ideas and tips over the following few days and weeks, and see how he does.

 

[Qua Sae]

Darwin did this, and the ONLY thing I found to stop his chewing was "Grannicks bitter apple". That stuff is foul tasting but smells like nothing AND lasts, So a quick spray and the dog won't even THINK about chewing it!

That's the same stuff we used for our bunnies! Great stuff. We've used it a couple of times on the hutch as well because they're chewing through that now! Lol.

I just wanted to quickly say not to talk to him when he is barking & being aggressive because it can reinforce his behaviour.. Also, by trying to comfort him while he is frightened, you will encourage that behaviour. Just a quick example.. Bonfire night, the RSPCA tell you to ignore your dog if he is scared or is barking because of the fireworks. Dogs are very good at picking up on tone & by using a reassuring tone, he will think that you are nervous therefore there is reason to be nervous! Lol.

If you do give him treats, please remember to give him extra walks & ideally, all treats ought to come out of his daily calorie allowance. So more treats = less dinner. Of course, they can be high in fat & sugar so be careful what you give him & keep an eye on his weight

Please, please be careful when giving him bones, they can cause an awful lot of damage! Our Vet actually advises us against giving Sox bones because of the damage they can cause. It's just not worth it.

 

[Tinytootz]

Sorry to drag this up again!

So far, chewing has stopped, barking on the lead has stopped, and people coming in the house is getting better.

Just taken Hugo out for a walk, and there were some children. One lot said hello to him, and he growled, the ones behind were skipping, and he got on the floor, barking at their ankles. They were screaming, he was barking more. He was off the lead as we were in the park, and prior to this, he has been fine off the lead. So I apologise, and continue along my merry way, thinking that perhaps it was the screaming. I then remember him going for the woman running yesterday, and the kid on the scooter, thinking to myself "OK, so he doesn't like children, screaming, people running, and scooters." So on the walk from the park to the road, I am busy picking up his doo-dahs, and there is a man in a hat (see, I'm still making excuses) walking away from us. Hugo runs up, barking, and bites his jeans. I shout him back, go to grab him, and he runs after him again, and bites him again. I scream at him to come back, he starts coming back, then returns to the man, barking and bites his jeans. I say I'm sorry, he's just frightened. To which the man points out (quite rightly) that he was walking away, there was nothing fearful going on. No blood was drawn, but lordly, so what!

So I come home in a state (still in one, hence the rambling), and call the dogs home. They ask what the problem is, and I say he has started biting. Their response? "Oh. You better bring him back then and swap him for another dog"

WTF! It upsets me even contemplating *swapping* him, as he is destined to be put down by them. Perhaps I am reading between the lines too much with that, but they aren't going to rehome a "dangerous dog" are they?

I'm wanting to contact a behaviourist, but I'm in too much of a mess to do that at the moment, wondering if perhaps he actually is a dangerous dog. I need to stop making excuses, as there are more and more things added to the "Hugo doesn't like" list - men, hats, scooters, noises, children, runners.....
What if he had of bitten the child, he was mm away from their legs. Then I would end up in court, and have to have him put down. If it was my child, I would have gone spare at the owner.

He's currently lying on the table under the window, looking at his mum, wondering why she is so upset. It's breaking my heart :cry:

 

[Qua Sae]

I don't have much advice on how to stop him from misbehaving..

I do, however, think you should consider putting a muzzle on him & keeping him on a lead for the time being. It's not safe for him to be off lead or without a muzzle while he is behaving this way. It's not being cruel, it's being a responsible owner. &, as you said, if this was someone else's dog biting at your child's ankle then you would be angry..

The fact of the matter is, you don't know this dog well enough to put so much trust in him.

You really need to get in touch with someone who can help with his behaviour asap because you might be doing little things that encourage the it. For example, being nurturing when he is misbehaving because you think he is scared - this will actually reinforce the bad behaviour.

 

[Tinytootz]

Yes, from now on he is on the lead for his morning walk as there are other people around in the park, and then in the evenings he can go to the playing fields for a run around, as there is rarely anyone there, and it is big enough for me to be nowhere near anybody at all.

I can safely say I have stopped unknowingly encouraging the behaviour. When he bit the man today, I was picking up poo, so didn't see what was going on exactly. But its highly unlikely the man did anything to encourage it. I would hate to have to muzzle him as he loves chasing his ball, and being a Collie, chasing the ball helps to tire him out. But I can't risk him doing it again, as next time might be his last.

Will contact the behaviourist, once I work out where to scrimp £80+ from, and have calmed down. I daren't even ring my mother as I'll start crying down the phone and she will hit the panic button


Basically, its behaviourist, or he gets put down. Plain and simple :cry:

 

[Qua Sae]

Is Hugo insured? As far as I'm aware, Pet Plan cover behaviourists.

I wasn't referring to the biting incident when I mentioned encouraging bad behaviour.. I was thinking more along the lines of when the children scared him. I think I might have mentioned this in previous posts, but when a dog is scared, the best thing to do is ignore him. Obviously try to remove him from the situation but don't make eye contact, don't talk to the dog, don't pet him etc. The RSPCA recommend this when there are fireworks going off because any kind of contact from you (or anyone else) reinforces his nervousness. If you talk to him in a different tone to what you normally would, then he will think there is a reason to be afraid.

I understand the frustration of having to keep a collie on a lead.. Our dog, Sox, is a border collie/whippet cross! He can run for a very long time. Unfortunately, we found out he has arthritis & muscle wastage in his back legs so no more playing football in the fields, no more fetch.. In fact, he's not allowed off his lead at all! It's not ideal but it keeps him safe & free from harm.

He doesn't need to be put down, he just needs some understanding. He's not aggressive yet, but you need to make sure he can't do things to hurt other people. I think you expect too much from him, he's just a puppy & you're expecting him to know exactly how to behave. Really, the only way to ensure he doesn't hurt a person or another animal is to muzzle & keep him on a lead. Take him for long walks to wear him out.

 

[Tinytootz]

He isn't insured yet, it is on the long to do list I have, which keeps getting longer

TBH, when he went for the child, I shouted "Hugo!", then tried to calm the child down, as she was screaming and putting her hand out. I simply couldn't ignore him in this instance, as I was terrified he would bite her, as he was so close to her legs, snarling and barking, I was focused on getting him away from the girl. Needless to say, once she had gone, he was fine.

With the man, the first time he did it I shouted him back and tried to grab him once I spotted it, but he ran after him again. In this instance, it wasn't in fear, it was pure nastiness. The man was walking away, ignoring Hugo. Even when he bit him the first time, he ignored him. Then granted, the second and third time, he pointed out to Hugo that if he did it again, he would hit him. By which point, I had managed to grab the dog, and made him sit till the man was out of sight.

Previous incidents have been fear IMHO, Hugo barking then hiding behind my legs. This time, he went after the man.

I just keep thinking "what if he had bitten the child" and getting myself dreadfully wound up. I know what to do with immediate effect (on the lead), and I hope to find a solution for the long term

 

[Qua Sae]

I would speak to your Vet, they might be able to offer some advice for free before you see the behaviourist. To me, the child incident still sounds like it's fear based & not just aggression for no reason. I hate having to keep repeating myself here, but you should put a muzzle on Hugo. It's the ONLY way to be certain that he won't bite a child, or a man in a hat, or anyone else for that matter. I honestly don't understand why people refuse to muzzle their aggressive dogs. If you can't afford to take him to the behaviourist then what's your plan from now until you can? Walk him at night time so there's no one else about? Not walk him? Take the risk of him biting a child? Seriously, muzzle your dog!

I had an experience recently where a dog tried to bite Sox & the whole thing pissed me off. I can't tell you how angry I was at the owner who simply told me that his dog wouldn't hurt a fly.. Well, if that's the case, why did he try to bite my dog?!

When he was barking & snarling at the girl, what was his body like? Were his ears back? Tail up or down? his body can tell you a lot about why he is behaving the way he is & will help you to correct him.

Can you afford to take him to puppy training classes? The RSPCA run classes near us & I'm sure there is something similar to you nearby. Where abouts do you live? How is he with other dogs on & off the lead?

 

[Mrs.S.]

Followed this thread with interest and I'm sorry but I really don't have any advice for you.

I appreciate it must be really hard for you. At the end of the day, Hugo is a dog, he can't talk and tell you his feeling or emotions, or why he's doing what he's doing, he also can't tell you about the bad things in his past so this makes the situation 10 times harder.

Is there any chance he's protecting you? Perhaps the love and fulfillment he now feels at being your pet, means that he's scared of anybody or anything that might risk this an wants to make sure they leave you and him along and don't come near and ruin your special bond?

Also, i really really think that you should have insurance ASAP. Especially as his behaviour is now erratic as if nothing else, it covers for liability so if he does do damage to somebody or something, you're covered and won't have a hefty sum to pay out.

Sorry i couldn't offer anything further and I really hope things work out in the end xxx

 

[JackieN]

The incident with the child was his fear. I know how scarey it is etc at the time, the same with the man. But both incidents happened on the same walk, so the incident with the child will have raised Hugo's adrenaline levels meaning the slightest little thing would escalate etc ie with the man.

I can explain better but my head is mush today after my sons accident at the weekend. You need the help of a behaviourist who will show you how to handle situations, helping Hugo to trust people etc, hes not a dangerous dog but a scared one. I live with one, and she is gradually gtting better and better with the right help

The dogs home may be able to help you or have a behaviourist they use? this is often the case when you adopt a dog

Do muzzle him. That way you feel 'safe' and not on edge all the time.

As I've said before Carla is just like Hugo shes a collie x. The difference in Carla since following the behaviourists advise is unreal. because I know exactly what to do in situations, and I am also gradually reducing all her fears. There are many dogs like Carla and Hugo, people without them just don't realise. I certainly didn't and have had dogs all my life.

Let us know whereyou are and I may be able to suggest a good behaviourist for you
x

 

[Tinytootz]

Thankyou.

Gemmy - My plan from now until I can get the behaviourist is to keep him on the lead for walks. A muzzle is an option. I'm not keen on it, but as you said, it is the only way to 100% guarantee he won't bite anyone. When on the lead I keep it short so he is close to me, and so I have more control over where he roams. When he was barking and snarling at the child, chances are it was fear, as she was skipping, and as soon as he barked, she started screaming. His whole body was on the floor, legs spread and forward, teeth at her leg, sort of hopping behind her, barking. With the man, he ran after him, and adopted a similar pose, but his head was higher as he bit near his thigh. Around other dogs off and on the lead, he isn't bothered. On the lead he has a look at them, then walks on, having another look as they pass him. Off the lead, he lets them sniff his bum (lovely), then he comes over to me. He doesn't seem totally at ease, eyes wide, head still, ears back a bit, but hasn't shown any signs of aggression towards them. But then he only has to show it once I guess and it's game over!

Selwonk - Insurance is at the top of the list for the day. He could well have been protecting me, it's just so strange that he has been fine for weeks, then today he turned.

Jackie - I agree, I think he was still 'wired' from the little girl incident, and the man was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. The behaviourist was recommended by the vet, but she isn't available till 8pm, so I'll have to sit and wait it out.

Mum thinks I should give him up, and that a behaviourist is a waste of money. I feel I should give him a chance, as it would break my heart to give him up, and the poor bugger would end up either being put down, or spending time in a rehoming centre again. Mum was all for taking him this afternoon, until I started to panic. Shes convinced she can find a rehoming centre which will take on an 'aggressive' dog and not put him down. I personally don't hold out so much hope, so currently waiting for OH to come home so we can discuss it, and then I can call the behaviourist at 8pm. For £80 if I can keep my dog and he can have a happy life with me, then its the best £80 I've ever spent.

 

[Qua Sae]

I wouldn't give up on him just yet.. The behaviourist will be able to give you some helpful tips on handling Hugo & if you can see him/her at 8pm then even better.

I definitely recommend going with Pet Plan & I might even have a money off coupon from them if you're interested? I'll have a look for you. We have the life protection with them & now Sox has arthritis it's going to come in very useful! Definitely get it sorted sooner rather than later because no insurance company will insure a dog for something he's been previously diagnosed with.

It does sound like fear with the child, something you should mention to the behaviourist. They will be grateful if you can explain how his body was as it gives them some indication of the type of work Hugo will need.

He doesn't sound too comfortable around other dogs.. Have any tried to jump up at him at all? That's something you should be aware of. Some dogs react badly if another jumps up.

£80 is a good price & if you can keep Hugo then you can provide him with a stable life.

 

[JackieN]

Thankyou.

Jackie - I agree, I think he was still 'wired' from the little girl incident, and the man was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. The behaviourist was recommended by the vet, but she isn't available till 8pm, so I'll have to sit and wait it out.

Mum thinks I should give him up, and that a behaviourist is a waste of money. I feel I should give him a chance, as it would break my heart to give him up, and the poor bugger would end up either being put down, or spending time in a rehoming centre again. Mum was all for taking him this afternoon, until I started to panic. Shes convinced she can find a rehoming centre which will take on an 'aggressive' dog and not put him down. I personally don't hold out so much hope, so currently waiting for OH to come home so we can discuss it, and then I can call the behaviourist at 8pm. For £80 if I can keep my dog and he can have a happy life with me, then its the best £80 I've ever spent.

Fear agression is hard but it can be done. carla is proof. Its not easy but once you know what to do and what not to do believe me it will improve massively.

I actually don't need to muzzle Carla because I know all her triggers and I have built up a trusting relationship with her where when scared she looks to me etc etc but this takes time so if you wish to let Hugo off then I would muzzle him. A muzzle may scare him too bless him so introduce it with high value treats abit at a time. while doing this I would lead walk him.

May I ask you who the behaviourist is as I know of most now! lol. Having seen two myself and belonging to dogpages for 2 years you get to know these people... Believe me if they are a good one it will very much be £80 well spent on a dog you love and loves you xxxxx