KD Rambles No. 2 Food addiction and peptides

[KD]

Hi again folks!

Thought I'd do a holiday diary. Bit more time on my hands at the moment and besides, I'm bringing Tracey's diary down with my long rambling 'deep and meaningfuls'

So I thought I would do the 'deep and meaningfuls' on this thread until the school term start again anyway.

Introduction
We were discussing Addictive Desires (AD)
Look here for the first installment
http://www.minimins.com/cambridge-diet-forum/16588-new-me-new-diary-maintenance-begins-13.html

Okay, so things aren't quite as easy as just accepting the desire. For one thing, how do you know it's an AD, not a genuine need for food?

When I finished with Cambridge, I joined WLR so that I could find out what was 'normal' eating. I needed to know portion sizes, types of foods, balance of the food groups. That doesn't mean that I always ate a normal amount, but I could identify what was normal and what wasn't. I may look back on the days food and think

Yep...a pretty 'normal' day there or
Think I overdid it a tad there
Blimey!!! That was no where near normal!!!

But at least I gradually understood what 'normal' was.

With this knowledge, I could then work out my patterns of eating, what my body needed, and what was AD.

I did many other steps before I really identified my AD, mainly because I didn't realise that AD existed. I thought it was more to do with my body needing more because I was addicted. I was trying to stop the desire as the desire inevitably led to eating.. Some of the steps helped, some didn't. A lot of trial and error there. Always trying to balance it with Intuitive Eating, but without throwing my common sense out of the window. Guess I intuitively want to use my common sense

I did a lot of research in those days. The internet, friends, strangers. I'd 'meet' people on various forums and wouldn't exchange email address unless they answered my 100 questions on weight, what they eat, how much exercise they do, if they've ever had an eating disorder etc I needed to seek out the 'normal' people. Find what they were doing and attempt to emulate them. I now know the eating habits of many concert pianists, webdesigners and teachers

It's taken time for me to get it all in order but once I identified my chatterbox as my AD, I found I could take one huge step forward. Possibly the answer that will keep me going for life.:clap:

I'll add more later about this later, and some general stuff about life in Karionland. Feel free to ask questions

 

[Maintainer]

I shall bookmark this immediately and keep reading, but won't profess to understand a word (yet)...

Keep it coming Karion. You're a big inspiration to me.

 

[MadamDotty]

Hey Karion

Good to see a KD thread again you've certainly got me thinking and I'm about to do a ramble on my own thread.

Always fascinated to read your thoughts, you certainly give us a lot to think about and don't let us off too easily either which speaking from my own experience is a good thing

Will be interested to see where this goes

xxx

 

[canireallydothis!!]

KD, Fab, keep going, Im at work, so need to read and digest later, Ill have a marathon session.

Thanks for your thoughts, I need these at this point in my life.

BFN x

 

[KD]

Thanks ladies:thankyou:

Met someone this morning that I haven't seen for ages.

She said "Wow....you've lost loads of weight"

I said "I haven't" She looked at me with sympathy and insisted I had.

Wasn't until I got home that I realised I haven't seem her for about 3 years What a loony

Will write more about AD later. Off for an appointment with a priest in a min. Boy...I certainly now how to live

 

[canireallydothis!!]

Talk more about chatterbox and AD pls, this bit seems to be making sense I think ????

 

[canireallydothis!!]

Planning, talk to me about planning, is it ok to have a desert after my tea, as long as I have the one, or plan how much I am going to have, as long as I just have that and leave the rest where it is, or do I just not buy anything to have??

Im stressed out a bit, I need to know what to do! Not about the desert, but about life!

 

[KD]

:clap: Good question Vicky

Planning. Yes, I did plan. I don't plan so much now, but if the weight goes up just a tiny bit, I do.

You do need to be quite confident with what constitutes a normal portion. I know what a normal portion of cereal is. I know how much shepherds pie I need etc. I know my normal portion is about 2/3 of the rest of my family (live with men!)

So I planned. I like to eat, and prefer snacks inbetween so I plan for those too. I also like to have something sweet after dinner. Not always, but often.

I don't pick diet foods unless it's something I really want, but I try to chose healthy foods because regardless of my weight...I'm kinda fond of being healthy I still have other things too, but I know they aren't really for my body...I just like them I do try to distinguish between the two.

Having planned what a 'normal' person would eat, I then know that if I'm craving anything between those times, then it's probably my AD.

So for example I've had dinner and I've sat down to watch the television with a slice of cake. I finish the cake and I want more. There is no way that I am hungry, though at times my mind thinks I am...but I can't be.

I take a moment to acknowledge my AD. I think to myself "Bloomin' AD playing up again....Ha...chance to work on this...you're not hungry, you don't need anything just yet...but it was yummy cake, so I'll make my evening snack another slice" Then I'll go back to watching the TV.

The thing is, I'm not watching the TV to distract myself. Would be doing that (during the hols anyway). I'm not trying to push the AD from my mind. I'm accepting that this is just something that I have. It doesn't mean I have to follow through, just remember that it is a desire and desire doesn't necessarily mean action.

There is nothing wrong with having the desire. I think most people have it to some extent. Yep...even the skinnies. It's just they don't act immediately. They accept that they want x, and are happy to wait until another time.

Strictly speaking, you should welcome the AD, as that gives you a chance to strengthen that new connection you are trying to make. Try not to be annoyed with it. Try not to clock watch until the next meal. Just get on with what you were doing and acknowledge the desire.

Okay...takes practice

 

[canireallydothis!!]

cool, i get you, so, it means acknowledging the desire but not acting on impulse maybe??

Like I desire to have a new £200 pair of shoes, well, it aint gonna happen, so i can either save up till I get them or not buy them??

Like with food, I desire the big lump of cheesecake but Ive just had dinner or what have you so it can wait, It will taste the same at suppertime or even tomorrow, and it will still be there when I would really like it??

Its the desire to keep eating rather than the need to.

I think Im getting there, its very similar to when I started moving up CD, I left food on my plate if I was full, I said no to choc if I wasnt hungry, yet the old habits crept in and I was faced with clearing my plate again, and eating what ever was there?? I felt better when I did the first stages, and my self esteem would go when I cocked it up. Back to yoyoyoyoyoyoyo all over again.

So do we just keep chipping away at it, or is there something else that will click along the way??

Keep talking KD, if Im doing your head in then say so, but I really need to get this totally understood x

 

[KD]

Like I desire to have a new £200 pair of shoes, well, it aint gonna happen, so i can either save up till I get them or not buy them??

That's it. But there's more to it than that. You're probably not a shopaholic. You know that desire doesn't mean 'got to have now'. Over the years you've reinforced a connection (for whatever reason), that 'want' means 'have' when it comes to food.

Like with food, I desire the big lump of cheesecake but Ive just had dinner or what have you so it can wait, It will taste the same at suppertime or even tomorrow, and it will still be there when I would really like it??

Exactly. This is where it is similar to IE. I do have a number of problems with how some people IE but I'll go along with that one

I think Im getting there, its very similar to when I started moving up CD, I left food on my plate if I was full, I said no to choc if I wasnt hungry, yet the old habits crept in and I was faced with clearing my plate again, and eating what ever was there??

Slightly different. It depends if you found it easy to act like that. If you did, then you probably weren't working on the AD. You were using a substitute. Probably riding on the wave of the novelty factor...eating real food...being slim.

How hard was it to do? Probably not hard at all. But of course, once the novelty factor wore off, you still had the AD monster to deal with.

It's not a case of avoiding the foods, but rather managing to face the desire without giving in to it. As you get better at that, you'll be able to cope with it whatever else happens.

Sometimes it'll be easy to avoid food, but that is no indication of whether you have fought the demons (AD).

Imagine being on a battle ground. The enemy is hiding around the corner. You get from A - B without them seeing you.

Of course, they strike when you aren't looking. Now...if you can destroy the enemy (you can tell I have sons), that's when you've really won the war.:clap:

So it's not a case of avoiding it. You have to face it. Face the AD and learn not to act on it. Just to accept that AD happens and means nothing more than a desire.

 

[Mrs Pink]

Hiya
I often observe skinnies to see what they do .... the ones I have observed (!) take smaller portions than me (I eat like the proverbial Irish Navvie) eat far slower than me (keeping up the similes, I wolf it down like a Dobermann that hasn't seen food for 48 hours) and they often leave food on their plate (not me! I clear mine then eye up everyone else's, such is my abhorrence of "waste"...)

I think these are the roots of my problem ... how to overcome these habits of a lifetime?

Oh and I am intrigued by your "off to meet a priest" throwaway comment - was that to ask about his nutritional habits, or to find out the Official modern stance on Gluttony?!
cheers
mrs pink

 

[KD]

Hiya
I often observe skinnies to see what they do .... the ones I have observed (!) take smaller portions than me (I eat like the proverbial Irish Navvie) eat far slower than me (keeping up the similes,

Doesn't always work that way. I control my weight, yet I eat fast. Also eat in front of the TV half the time. Have no intention of stopping, because I don't see it as a problem.

My best friend on the other hand, is overweight, yet I've never seen anyone eat so slowly How on earth she manages to consume all her cals in a day

Oh and I am intrigued by your "off to meet a priest" throwaway comment - was that to ask about his nutritional habits, or to find out the Official modern stance on Gluttony?!
cheers
mrs pink

He's a good friend of mine. We had a good chat, about addictive desire as it happens.

Okay, the addictive desires of a sex addict. Fascinating discussion and he kept to his word and didn't once blame Satan :clap:

 

[Mrs Pink]

Jeez, so to top it all you're a sex addict? As they say in Glasgow, Nae luck! Mmmm ...and can a celibate person advise on addiction to something he's never experienced? Probably so as I doubt eg AA counsellors have to have had a drink problem ...

 

[KD]

I wasn't there to get advice That's booked for next week

 

[DQ]

So for example I've had dinner and I've sat down to watch the television with a slice of cake. I finish the cake and I want more. There is no way that I am hungry, though at times my mind thinks I am...but I can't be.

I take a moment to acknowledge my AD. I think to myself "Bloomin' AD playing up again....Ha...chance to work on this...you're not hungry, you don't need anything just yet...but it was yummy cake, so I'll make my evening snack another slice" Then I'll go back to watching the TV.
........

.......Try not to be annoyed with it. Try not to clock watch until the next meal. Just get on with what you were doing and acknowledge the desire.

Makes an awful lot of sense there - gonna bookmark this and keep coming back. Nice one KD :thankyou:

 

[KD]

Makes an awful lot of sense there - gonna bookmark this and keep coming back. Nice one KD :thankyou:

and thanks DQ

 

[canireallydothis!!]

That's it. But there's more to it than that. You're probably not a shopaholic. You know that desire doesn't mean 'got to have now'. Over the years you've reinforced a connection (for whatever reason), that 'want' means 'have' when it comes to food.

Yup, I get that, can see DD going down same route too

Exactly. This is where it is similar to IE. I do have a number of problems with how some people IE but I'll go along with that one

Not sure I get the IE bit, havent researched it, I know it means intuitive, but my intuitive is different!

Slightly different. It depends if you found it easy to act like that. If you did, then you probably weren't working on the AD. You were using a substitute. Probably riding on the wave of the novelty factor...eating real food...being slim.

Half and half, sometimes it was the novelty factor, and sometimes it was hard, but mainly I was getting off on being slim I reckon

But of course, once the novelty factor wore off, you still had the AD monster to deal with.

Didnt really deal with that one!!!

It's not a case of avoiding the foods, but rather managing to face the desire without giving in to it. As you get better at that, you'll be able to cope with it whatever else happens.

Can you do both, avoid certain things yet allow others??

Imagine being on a battle ground. The enemy is hiding around the corner. You get from A - B without them seeing you.

Of course, they strike when you aren't looking. Now...if you can destroy the enemy (you can tell I have sons), that's when you've really won the war.:clap:

So it's not a case of avoiding it. You have to face it. Face the AD and learn not to act on it. Just to accept that AD happens and means nothing more than a desire.

So do I have to test myself?? Is that what you did, ie go and buy a packet of biscuits and see if I can test myself, or just slowly build up to it??

Arghhh!!!!

Ok, so I have the desire to eat, and the desire in my head means need to eat it now, I can get that, yup, no probs, that makes sense, but Im scared that Ill never be able to do it, Im scared that ill never have just the one, or just a handful, yet I know I can do it, Im scared to test it in case I drop an almighty b*llock and trough the lot!!!

Do I keep on fighting, will I win in the end??

 

[KD]

But you're going up the plans aren't you Vicky You've got to go up the plans. Don't let this throw you off course with Cambridge.

Anyway, will answer the questions if I can

Yup, I get that, can see DD going down same route too

Blast! But she's at a good age to 'train'. Lots of good times without food involved etc.

Not sure I get the IE bit, havent researched it, I know it means intuitive, but my intuitive is different!

I think there is a lot to be said for it. I would call myself an IE person, just tweaked. As it happens, people do tweak. Most non-diet methods have a slightly different way of getting to the same point and at the end of the day you have to work it to suit.

Can you do both, avoid certain things yet allow others??

In what way? Avoiding large quantities of unhealthy/trigger foods, yet still allowing yourself to have some?

So do I have to test myself?? Is that what you did, ie go and buy a packet of biscuits and see if I can test myself, or just slowly build up to it??

It's easier if there isn't much in the house, but then you don't get to test yourself much. I introduced things gradually, working through various trigger foods.

Arghhh!!!!

Relax. Nothing to be scared of You mustn't get upset with the AD, but you do need to understand it.

Ok, so I have the desire to eat, and the desire in my head means need to eat it now, I can get that, yup, no probs, that makes sense, but Im scared that Ill never be able to do it, Im scared that ill never have just the one,

Just remember that if you give in, you are reinforcing your AD and vice versa. It really is your choice. You can eat whatever you want. There are no limits. The last thing you need when you have finished the dieting journey is to find you are still having to make food illegal.

You have the choice at all times. Have now and feed the desire, or have later. Eat healthily and feel good, or eat rubbish and feel rubbish

Okay...sometimes we feel good eating rubbishbut not in the long term. Just remember that and make informed choices.

or just a handful, yet I know I can do it, Im scared to test it in case I drop an almighty b*llock and trough the lot!!!

There will be times when you give into the AD, and times when you wont. It doesn't matter. Make peace with it all. Just keep working on it. It's when you try to fight it, rather than just accept it that it gets harder.

Do I keep on fighting, will I win in the end??

Don't fight. Hang on..I've just said that

It's fun. Laugh at it. Don't get stressed. Okay...does that sound too difficult at the moment?

Can you relax into the feeling. Just accepting the feeling, acknowledging it, then moving back into what you were doing?

 

[canireallydothis!!]

Last post before bed, I stayed up for your reply!!!

But you're going up the plans aren't you Vicky You've got to go up the plans. Don't let this throw you off course with Cambridge.

Sure am, doing this one by the absolute book, no questions there.

Blast! But she's at a good age to 'train'. Lots of good times without food involved etc.

I should be able to deal with this, she just has that desire to eat.

It's easier if there isn't much in the house, but then you don't get to test yourself much. I introduced things gradually, working through various trigger foods.

Good idea, slow n steady wins this race

Relax. Nothing to be scared of You mustn't get upset with the AD, but you do need to understand it.

Ok, breathe. I was getting a bit jittery, but then as all addictions, its scary when you think about conquering them

Just remember that if you give in, you are reinforcing your AD and vice versa. It really is your choice. You can eat whatever you want. There are no limits. The last thing you need when you have finished the dieting journey is to find you are still having to make food illegal.

You have the choice at all times. Have now and feed the desire, or have later. Eat healthily and feel good, or eat rubbish and feel rubbish

Okay...sometimes we feel good eating rubbishbut not in the long term. Just remember that and make informed choices.

Stored for future reference

There will be times when you give into the AD, and times when you wont. It doesn't matter. Make peace with it all. Just keep working on it. It's when you try to fight it, rather than just accept it that it gets harder.

Understood

Don't fight. Hang on..I've just said that

PMSL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's fun. Laugh at it. Don't get stressed. Okay...does that sound too difficult at the moment?

Nope, after this post Im ready to conquer again, DH has been sat with me while Ive typed this and although Ive baffled him, he has helped me too, and hopefully understands this AD now.

Can you relax into the feeling. Just accepting the feeling, acknowledging it, then moving back into what you were doing?

I can, yes, I really can, Im gonna make the odd cock up, I know that, but as long as it is the odd one, then Im normal!

Right, back to 790, then moving up, and facing my demons, facing my AD chatterbox, and knowing that if I conquer it then Ill get there in the end x

 

[DQ]

Can you relax into the feeling. Just accepting the feeling, acknowledging it, then moving back into what you were doing?

That's one of the hardest things to do...