Big body squad

[MissSlinky2011]

There has always been obese people.It's just that we didn't have internet etc so it didn't get out there as easy as it can be now.

I say that about natural disasters, people panic that the end is nigh but there have always been tsunamis, earth quake, floods and famine but 5, 10, 15 years ago you couldn't press refresh on your iPhone on the news page and be bombarded with death and destruction and disaster!

X x x

 

[ThatBubbs]

I just think you can't judge everyone else's mental state and readiness to take charge by your own, and vilifying / shaming someone for being 40 stone isn't going to help. They have to be ready and able to make the change - I'd rather the facilities existed so they could have some dignity in their lives / treatment even though I'm not getting a direct benefit than they didn't, simple enough.

People say 'surely that should have been a turning point?' but that could be applied to many of us here at many times in our lives - maybe when I was 16 and a size 16 and got harrassed in the street it 'should have been' a turning point, but it wasn't, and there were many other occasions where it wasn't, one day for me it just clicked. The same goes for these people, saying you don't like the freak show aspect but then in a second breath demonising / shaming people above a certain weight is kinda hypocritical to me and I know that were I at that weight it wouldn't help.

I think people have reasons for not doing what we are doing, but we shouldn't hate them for it, or deny them the same level of care they've paid their taxes towards and deserve as a basic human right too - we should understand that they will come to it on their own terms as we did. IMO

 

[MissSlinky2011]

How have they paid any taxes when they are on disability benefit because of their weight? You don't get to weigh 40 stone or more overnight.

What I find disgraceful about wasting money on a lift for a man that can still walk and could get up the stairs - yes it may take him half an hour but so what! Is that surely the £10,000 that was spent on something he could have lived without (seeing as how he can still make babies at 43 stone!) Could have been spent on something far more important and needed elsewhere!

 

[stivesliz]

There has always been obese people.It's just that we didn't have internet etc so it didn't get out there as easy as it can be now.

I agree to some point but when I was younger I cant remember any people that were especially big - everyone walked, nobody had takeaways that often etc etc x

 

[Blueway]

I just think you can't judge everyone else's mental state and readiness to take charge by your own, and vilifying / shaming someone for being 40 stone isn't going to help. They have to be ready and able to make the change - I'd rather the facilities existed so they could have some dignity in their lives / treatment even though I'm not getting a direct benefit than they didn't, simple enough.

People say 'surely that should have been a turning point?' but that could be applied to many of us here at many times in our lives - maybe when I was 16 and a size 16 and got harrassed in the street it 'should have been' a turning point, but it wasn't, and there were many other occasions where it wasn't, one day for me it just clicked. The same goes for these people, saying you don't like the freak show aspect but then in a second breath demonising / shaming people above a certain weight is kinda hypocritical to me and I know that were I at that weight it wouldn't help.

I think people have reasons for not doing what we are doing, but we shouldn't hate them for it, or deny them the same level of care they've paid their taxes towards and deserve as a basic human right too - we should understand that they will come to it on their own terms as we did. IMO

Obviously some of the people on this programme have issues with food and eating that most of us will never understand but I do think a line has to be drawn somewhere and people have to accept some sort of personal responsibility.
I don't agree with giving someone a bigger bed/chair/house just because they've outgrown the old one, being obese isn't an incurable illness and regardless of how hard it is there is another choice.

 

[ThatBubbs]

No you're right it's not an incurable illness but there is a point where it is incredibly difficult for a person to do anything about it - and that point is different for everyone. While we are in a positive 'yeah, let's do this' mindset maybe we're forgetting just how bleak it can seem when you're at the point where you're resigned to being that way forever. I'm not saying give everyone a new house if they put weight on, but at a certain stage obesity becomes a disability - and any other disability we wouldn't think to dismiss cries for help / aid.

I think a bit of common consideration doesn't hurt, that's all, and I don't think being judgemental helps - there may well be people on this site, reading these threads thinking about doing something but seeing that some of us would have them denied the facilities for a basic life - it's not exactly going to help them.

 

[MissSlinky2011]

I don't think you can say being obese is a disability, I work with people with disabilities and I think its wrong to compare someone who has knowingly placed thousands of calories worth of food in their mouths over years and years of abuse getting themselves into a position where they can no longer walk because they did it to themselves with noone else to blame.

And then a 19 year old boy who can't walk, talk needs 24 hour a day care has severe disphagia, can barely leave his room because he might catch a common cold that could kill him, will never drive a car, go to the pub or have a girlfriend.

How can you compare someone who made themselves obese to someone like that!

Would you say a heroin addict had a disability? No you would say they had an addiction and needed treatment that will wean them off the drug but they would never be classed as having a disability. Overeating is an addiction and should be treated as one and not be treated as a disability.

 

[ThatBubbs]

but at a certain stage obesity becomes a disability

^^ That's what I *actually* said, not 'Obesity is a disability'. I stand by that - I this you're misinterpreting what I'm saying.
Someone who is a couple of BMI points into obesity, or the level that I am / was at when I started - not necessarily a disability. 40 / 50 stone OTOH? That's disabling on a day to day basis - hence some of the people on that show being bedbound. I'm sure the lady with the tooth issue would consider it so - whether it's 'her own fault' or not.

In the same sense somebody suffering with anorexia, once their body gets to a certain point it IS disabling, they aren't capable of doing what they naturally would be able to.

 

[MissSlinky2011]

At no stage does it become a disability and I have not misinterpreted what you have said,we are not discussing people who are 20 or even 30 stone we are discussing the 40+ stone people who are seen on the show and even then it is not a disability.

Someone with anorexia is also another case of addiction but instead of wanting to eat they become addicted to eating less and less and exercising more and more.

Overeating, anorexia, drugs, gambling all addictions not disabilities and should be treated as addictions.

 

[ThatBubbs]

I don't understand how you can say it's not disabling - imagine carrying around 20 / 30 stone extra to what you weigh now - the WHO defines disability (irrespective of permanence) as below:

"Disabilities is an umbrella term, covering impairments, activity limitations, and participation restrictions. An impairment is a problem in body function or structure; an activity limitation is a difficulty encountered by an individual in executing a task or action; while a participation restriction is a problem experienced by an individual in involvement in life situations. Thus disability is a complex phenomenon, reflecting an interaction between features of a person’s body and features of the society in which he or she lives"

That supports precisely what I'm saying, I think as slimmers, as people in the same battle surely we can have a little more empathy?!

 

[MissSlinky2011]

I'm not saying it doesn't effect their day to day life but in my opinion at the end of the day they have nobody to blame but themselves and so no I will not change my opinion and I do not appreciate you trying to force your opinion on me. I'm an opinionated person but I will never force someone to try and agree with me as you are doing.

I do not think people who have allowed themselves to reach such heavyweight proportions deserve to be classed as disabled and I never will!

 

[ThatBubbs]

We're just going to have to disagree then, because I cannot see your reasoning in the slightest (and usually I'm a pretty level headed rational person)

 

[MissSlinky2011]

I never asked you to agree with me.

 

[ThatBubbs]

That's a little bit defensive ... you started the thread inviting opinions, and I gave mine, and we had a 'debate' and the conclusion I came to was that we weren't going to agree - so I thought I'd say that. Lesson learnt

 

[MissSlinky2011]

It is defensive because there is sharing opinions and having a debate which is what I was doing without forcing anyone to agree with me because I don't really care if people like my opinion or agree with my feelings but then you have been trying to force me into your point of view and by saying this

We're just going to have to disagree then, because I cannot see your reasoning in the slightest (and usually I'm a pretty level headed rational person)

Yes I feel the need to defend myself as I don't care if you agree with me or not, I'm stating my opinion end of story not attempting to force everyone around to my way of thinking as you have tried to do.

 

[ermintrude]

I will not change my opinion and I do not appreciate you trying to force your opinion on me. I'm an opinionated person but I will never force someone to try and agree with me as you are doing.

But isn't that exactly what you're doing?

These are just two different points of view. Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything, you are free to have whatever opinion you wish and equally you cant take away another's opinion. It's called debate - you both have reasons for having the opinion you do, and youre both free choose whether your opinion has changed based on another person's reasons. Nobody's forcing anyone to do anything.

It cuts both ways.

 

[Blaze]

I am actually shocked at how uncaring and insensitive this thread is. Shame on you, 'missslinky'. You'd think that someone who is admittedly overweight herself would have some empathy towards others. That could SO easily have been you. Good for you that you reached your trigger point are are doing something about your weight - these people haven't yet.

I agree with everything Bubbs has said. And yes, there ARE illnesses that can cause obesity and medications too. I know, I have cancer myself and have to take steroids to deal with the side effects of chemotherapy. They cause me to put weight ON. It's a VERY well-known side effect and I'd been warned by my oncologist about it.

Oh, and this is a major bugbear of mine - people on benefits DO still pay taxes you know. I work in tax, I'm currently receiving contributions based employment and support allowance (due to exhausting my entitlement to statutory sick pay, I am still employed) which is a taxable benefit. Please, if you're going to use 'facts' to back up your opinion, at least do us the courtesy of getting them right first.

 

[Purplebint]

It was SPD and a spinal injury that helped me to get to 20 stone+. It's easier to get very large than you'd think, and I struggled to get any real support to lose the weight from the medical profession. They were quite happy to treat my mobility issues with painkillers but the weight itself was something that they saw as just another symptom of my disabilities.

It was only having online friends doing so well on slimming world that I braved joining a group. For people without a support network, or for those with carers that are enabling the eating behaviour then I can see how easily it could get out of hand.

I'm very glad that I found a group with more empathy than what is being shown by some people in this thread. If I'd have felt that judged by people when I'd have gone to seek help then I would have just come back home via the takeaway.

 

[kingleds]

Purplebint - you took the words right out of my mouth. The sole reason I got obese was due to injuring my back and being completely incapable of doing any exercise for nearly 8 years. Due to the chronic pain I spent alot of time on painkillers, not going out, except to work (don't worry- I was still paying my taxes everyone), suffering from depression and overeating as a result, getting bigger, being in more pain, being more depressed, going out less, eating more... you get the picture...

I would still be in that vicious cycle if it wasn't for my step sister telling me about SW & showing me, by her own fantastic weighht loss, that is was possible without the need to exercise. I had to loose about 3 stone before I could even consider going to a gym and putting my body through the torture of exercising, and even now, when I am just overweight, not obese, I can quite easily do my back an injury which limits my ability to do exercise for a short period of time.

So, every time I think 'How could someone get like that' I remember how close I was to being that person. A bit like when I see a young single mother and think 'how could you do that to yourself' I remember the difference between her & me was sheer dumb luck.

We are the last people who should be judging people who are overweight.

 

[MissSlinky2011]

Why should it be shame on me? I haven't asked anyone to agree with my opinion and its not going to change and I'm not ashamed of the way I feel so no offence just deal with it! I'm entitled to feel and say what I want that's the beauty of freedom of speech.

I don't see how anyone can reach 40+ stone and not notice, even when my weight started creeping up through the stones I knew I had a problem I just thought it could be tomorrows problem until one day it was tomorrow!

I've never said that there aren't illnesses that will increase weight but an illness alone won't make you hit 30, 40, 50 stone and telling yourself that is a big fat lie just to make yourself feel better! I know I did it for 5 years I blamed my weight on hormones, on the steroids I was given when I was 10, on pcos on bad genes but they were all excuses in an attempt to comfort myself and at the end of the day it was the day I realised it was my hand putting food into my mouth that made me 19 stone nothing and none else was to blame.

People reaching that kind of weight need to accept some responsibility that it is their fault for getting to that weight! And if they can't well they will continue on the same destructive path until they die because of their weight.

You can't make excuses for getting fat you have to accept responsibility or your never going to change. I don't believe giving someone who can walk a lift and treating obesity as a disability is going to improve the level of obesity in the uk if anything its going to make it worse.

And just a note when I'm talking about steroids I refer just to me using it as an excuse and its not in reference to anyone else. I've lost 2 people recently to cancer - I know how difficult it is.