doin CD on the cheap!!!!!
- Thread starter virgo
- Start date
jane
Opinionated
spot on Tracey. which, of course brings the argument full circle.
Enter stage left THE CAMBRIDGE DIET. Minimum Cals maximum nutrition.
Problem solved.
[/quote]
Oh virgo Virgo VIRGO.
I accept your arguments about dissolute student lifestyles. BUT despite Having submitted my treatise y'day arguing that your current diet taken against a lifetimes sensible eating might be a pragmatic compromise, I'm going to have to back track a bit.
Biochemistry lecture coming up (sorry)
1.Lets assume that your home made VLCD is as good as CD, (even though there are some definite nutritional gaps we gave the benefit of the doubt to an healthy but overweight young lass)
2.ketosis induced by restricted carbohydrate intake is a benign process only when certain other conditions are met.
Firstly; the body would naturally tend to metabolise lean mass as well as fat. CD & other VLCD's are high in protein. Given the abundance of substrate the body builds & destroys protein at the same weight. Result = NO loss of muscle.
Ditto it effectively prevents any tendency to lower bone density
3. As we lose weight body fat reduces & the consequent pressure to release energy from other sources rises. Cambridge won't let anyone do one of the ketosis plans within the normal BMI range for good reason.
The lower your BMI the more damaging ketosis becomes. you will be losing bone mass & lean tissue. This latter includes not only the obvious arm & leg muscles,but also protein will be being removed from all organs of your body.Remember also that slimfast is designed to be made up with milk,so by definition they won't have added the calcium to the shake.
This effect becomes rapidly more pronounced at the lower end.
To continue to do it to BMI's under 20 is quite hazardous.
4. Now it may be that you are intending to do the last part of the journey just by Calorie counting, even so a BMI of 17.5 or below would be enough to get you considered for a diagnosis of anorexia nervosa. ( well that used to be the cut off, If I'm wrong & someone knows better please correct me.)
5.forget the %RDA of various micro nutrients, drop the 'my life style is better than student drinking culture' act, it only has any credibility if your bmi is in the mid 20's. The effects of anorexic range BMI's include premature osteoporosis, hypothalamic damage(which,as it is the overseer of most other hormonal & other self regulatory systems in the body can be a real bugger), infertility to mention but a few. The appalling psycho-social & family consequences go with out saying.
OK Lecture over.
Please virgo write something here to reassure us all that you are not entering this territory.
minilady
Gold Member
Jane Just wanted to say that I had quoted JustJo with those words and had agreed with her. So credit goes to Jo for that comment.
Tracey
x
hey....
im not asian...but i am mixed race.
i feel strongly that BMI is only a guide.
my genetics mean i have a very small bone structure, and for my frame i am carrying excess weight. for me to look slim like most people would at healthy BMI my BMI will be lower. this is evident as one of my friends who is also 5.1 weighs exactly the same as me yet she is a whole dress size smaller. she dint believe me that i weighed the same as her and to prove i wasnt lyin sayin i was lighter than i actually was i had to weigh myself in front of her!!!
My father who is a little italian man is 5.3 and weighs just under 10stone so for a man his BMI is quite low. His sisters who are the same height as me all weigh under 7stone and they are healthy. The women in my family are all naturally petite and i kno that genetically my body would also be if i had not let my diet get out of control.
i started the CD (the real one-with a counciller) when i weighed 11stone (dress size 14-16.) my councillor actually said that she thought i looked like i wud be heavier on my first weigh-in!! because im only 5.1 and my frame is naurally petite i can be rather porkey yet weigh less than i look. this is why BMI can only be a guide as it does not fully reflect a persons figure.
so now at 5.1 and 7.7 i am a size 8-10 (which i kno is concidered to be a healthy weight to stop) but in comparision to other girls at this height and weight i still have a larger figure. by loosing the last stone i aim to be a comfortable size 8 perhapse even a size 6! i will not be boney and skeletal looking( i have plenty of tits and arse-also thanks to genetics!!) but healthy and petite like the rest of the women in my family.
does that make sense?
blue_grapefruit
Gold Member
I'm 5ft 1!!! (and mixed race)
I gotta stop reading this thread - its starting to scare me.
Good luck virgo with whatever you do eventually xx
jane
Opinionated
thankyou virgo for your last & excellent post.
You stood your ground & made a convincing case for the sense & safety of your intended loss.
Much the same as the way you have defended your diy-CD plan.
After I posted my Pompous biochem lecture I did wonder if I'd been a bit too aggressive. I am, after all , a bossy old fart & you a student.
I needn't have worried.
As a nosey old bag too..I'm fascinated to know what you are studying?
have you always been good at getting your message across?
BG..I rather fear you are referring,at least in part,to my post.
Don't be scared....what bits in particular? If I can explain it better I will try. I put the case rather starkly cos I wanted Virgo to justify herself.....& she's done it pretty well.
You stood your ground & made a convincing case for the sense & safety of your intended loss.
Much the same as the way you have defended your diy-CD plan.
After I posted my Pompous biochem lecture I did wonder if I'd been a bit too aggressive. I am, after all , a bossy old fart & you a student.
I needn't have worried.
As a nosey old bag too..I'm fascinated to know what you are studying?
have you always been good at getting your message across?
I'm 5ft 1!!! (and mixed race)
I gotta stop reading this thread - its starting to scare me.
Good luck virgo with whatever you do eventually xx
BG..I rather fear you are referring,at least in part,to my post.
Don't be scared....what bits in particular? If I can explain it better I will try. I put the case rather starkly cos I wanted Virgo to justify herself.....& she's done it pretty well.
blue_grapefruit
Gold Member
Nope, not at all. Just a bit shocked at Virgos current weight and goal weight. I'm small, when i was a size 10 i was teeny. I do have big boobs though
Cant ever imagine being 7st 7 thats all x
Shazpaz
Regular Member
Hi Virgo......as you know I've pretty much backed up everything you've said from the beginning of this thread, but I'm very concerned at your goal weight hun. My sister in law is 9 stone and she is 5ft 1. To imagine her losing 2.5 stones She is a lovely size 10 now. Her figure is AMAZING. She's got MASSIVE boobs and a lovely curvy figure. She moans all the time about her figure, but she is lovely and slim.....and her concerns are totally unwarrented. I dont think people ever think their figures are perfect and I'm concerned that once you get to your goal then that will not be enough. Surely a lovely healthy size 8/10 is better then trying for a size 6!! Its better to be lovely and curvy.....far more sexy hun!
She is a lovely size 10 now. Her figure is AMAZING. She's got MASSIVE boobs and a lovely curvy figure. She moans all the time about her figure, but she is lovely and slim.....and her concerns are totally unwarrented. I dont think people ever think their figures are perfect and I'm concerned that once you get to your goal then that will not be enough. Surely a lovely healthy size 8/10 is better then trying for a size 6!! Its better to be lovely and curvy.....far more sexy hun!Hi Virgo......as you know I've pretty much backed up everything you've said from the beginning of this thread, but I'm very concerned at your goal weight hun. My sister in law is 9 stone and she is 5ft 1. To imagine her losing 2.5 stones
hi shazpaz....
i do kno very well the support u have given me in this thread and im very greatful! u wer actually the first person to talk to me on here and it was great to see u had joined this thread too!
while your concerns are perfectly valid about my intended weightloss i still feel i kno what i am doing.
i like to think i am of sound mind and i will judge wether or not i am taking the weighloss too far as i go. at the moment it is a goal i have set myself. i have never been 6.7st so i cant be certain that that is the weight i want to be but i kno at the moment i wud still like to be a bit smaller. it may turn out that the next 7Ibs will make a big difference in how feel and look and will be the point at which i stop but i wont kno until i get there. i am very close to my family and i kno that they will not allow me to be unhealthy with my weightloss.
i promise u that all i want is to be a healthy young lass at the right body weight for my frame. i want to still look curvy and will not take it to the point of looking skeletal!! thank u for ur message and agree curves are sexy...well as long as they are in the right place!
Hi Virgo,
just wanted to say that I enjoyed this thread a lot and thanks for starting it. You seem a very strong person and that is admirable.
Maybe you will let us have some piccis once you're done so no one will worry.
A friend of mine is just like you (well, she's half italian, very petite, weighs 7st and a peanut but with tits and arse and karate training she's a picture of health...).
Not sure why I'm postin this I just want to show my appreciation to someone standing there ground and making sense in doing so..
xxx
just wanted to say that I enjoyed this thread a lot and thanks for starting it. You seem a very strong person and that is admirable.
Maybe you will let us have some piccis once you're done so no one will worry.
A friend of mine is just like you (well, she's half italian, very petite, weighs 7st and a peanut but with tits and arse and karate training she's a picture of health...).
Not sure why I'm postin this I just want to show my appreciation to someone standing there ground and making sense in doing so..
xxx
I was 'thunking'. On the surface, it does seem a very low weight to get to, but...when I was about BMI 29, I was constantly being told that I looked just fine. At BMI 27 my doctor was happy for me to stop losing weight. In fact, she told me to stop!
Like others, she said for me, the BMI table didn't work Others were always telling me not to worry about the charts...I really did look slim enough.
If you look at my piccies in the gallery (press gallery under my name), you'll see my before and after. The after is 'officially overweight'. Only the charts labelled me that...nobody who actually saw me.
So (eventually getting to the point here), it seems to me that there is no reason why it shouldn't work the other way. Some people just look fine under the recommended BMI.
We're all different.
I guess people just get worried as we know how easy it is to get carried away with dieting, and find it difficult to judge how we look.
Like others, she said for me, the BMI table didn't work
Others were always telling me not to worry about the charts...I really did look slim enough.If you look at my piccies in the gallery (press gallery under my name), you'll see my before and after. The after is 'officially overweight'. Only the charts labelled me that...nobody who actually saw me.
So (eventually getting to the point here
), it seems to me that there is no reason why it shouldn't work the other way. Some people just look fine under the recommended BMI. We're all different.
I guess people just get worried as we know how easy it is to get carried away with dieting, and find it difficult to judge how we look.
jane
Opinionated
hi jane....i like a good debate!
I'd say that is fairly obvious.
im studying architecture currently but come september i will be specialising in interior design- the architectural side.
its funny u shud ask if i have always been good at getting my message across, alot of people say that i am a great speaker. Im actually the head girl at uni working as the chair of the student commitee and also the managing director of an extra business course i am studyin for fun! .
Right ....so an archetypal idle student waster then?
i think i must get it from my dad, he's taught me everything i kno about debating! frm an early age i was taught not to whine but to work out a balanced argument for what i want! i think growning up my parents used to say no to everything i asked just to teach me how to reason with people. so now i guess its just natural!....useful skill that i appeciate now!
Invaluable skill. Being able to put your case with conviction but without anger. Ever considered politics?
what is it that u do? virgo[/quote]
Me? apart from a little CDCing I'm an elderly mummy of 3 & fulltime motor-mouth. ( began breeding rather late)
you are right about the lbs making a bigger difference the smaller you get & your assertion that you'll know what your goal weight is when you get there is v sensible.
I still hope, however, that you'll stay as closer to 20 than 17 bmi even though I accept your statements about your build, genetics etc.
so what will your next subject for debate be?
I'd say that is fairly obvious.
im studying architecture currently but come september i will be specialising in interior design- the architectural side.
its funny u shud ask if i have always been good at getting my message across, alot of people say that i am a great speaker. Im actually the head girl at uni working as the chair of the student commitee and also the managing director of an extra business course i am studyin for fun! .
Right ....so an archetypal idle student waster then?
i think i must get it from my dad, he's taught me everything i kno about debating! frm an early age i was taught not to whine but to work out a balanced argument for what i want! i think growning up my parents used to say no to everything i asked just to teach me how to reason with people. so now i guess its just natural!....useful skill that i appeciate now!
Invaluable skill. Being able to put your case with conviction but without anger. Ever considered politics?
what is it that u do? virgo[/quote]
Me? apart from a little CDCing I'm an elderly mummy of 3 & fulltime motor-mouth. ( began breeding rather late)
you are right about the lbs making a bigger difference the smaller you get & your assertion that you'll know what your goal weight is when you get there is v sensible.
I still hope, however, that you'll stay as closer to 20 than 17 bmi even though I accept your statements about your build, genetics etc.
so what will your next subject for debate be?
JustJo
Cambridge Counsellor
I actually agree that the BMI chart should only be used as a guide, as everyone is built differently, and we all vary in what we look like at different weights.
Like KD, my BMI was still considered 'overweight' when I finished cd, but I looked slim and was wearing size 10/12. I stayed that way for two and a half years, and have only just this year decided to diet down to what's considered to be 'healthy'. I am now towards the top end of a healthy BMI, and am firmly into size 10s. However, a fair few people have said that I look 'skinny', 'too thin', etc. I also know from weighing many clients over the past few years, that some of them surprise me by having a weight much higher than I expected from how they look, and some of them look 'big', but the scales show a fairly low weight!
I'm not so much concerned that you want to get down to such a low BMI, Virgo (although, it does still worry me a little!), but I do feel strongly about you doing a vlcd with such a low BMI, as your body could be using lean muscle from around your vital organs for energy. It would be far more sensible for you to get a few pounds off slowly, but eating healthily and exercising.
Jo x
Like KD, my BMI was still considered 'overweight' when I finished cd, but I looked slim and was wearing size 10/12. I stayed that way for two and a half years, and have only just this year decided to diet down to what's considered to be 'healthy'. I am now towards the top end of a healthy BMI, and am firmly into size 10s. However, a fair few people have said that I look 'skinny', 'too thin', etc. I also know from weighing many clients over the past few years, that some of them surprise me by having a weight much higher than I expected from how they look, and some of them look 'big', but the scales show a fairly low weight!
I'm not so much concerned that you want to get down to such a low BMI, Virgo (although, it does still worry me a little!), but I do feel strongly about you doing a vlcd with such a low BMI, as your body could be using lean muscle from around your vital organs for energy. It would be far more sensible for you to get a few pounds off slowly, but eating healthily and exercising.
Jo x
mikey
Silver Member
I have read this thread with interest.
I am doing LL, and after completing Route to management I do not want to have to eat this bunch of rather poor tasting chemicals again. I want to try to formulate a healthy VLCD that I can use from time to time as needed to control my weight - e.g before or after a holiday, or after a business trip with hotel/restaurant meals.
My plan is to construct menus that provide 100% nutrition using foods readily available in shops and supermarkets but which total no more than 800 kcals per day.
My initial thoughts are that the meals will be very low carb and higher protein - lean ham, lean steak, chicken, tuna, salmon etc. served with low carb veggies and salads - lettuce cucumber, tomatoes, celery, aubergine, mushroom, peppers, green beans, mange tout, baby corn, cauliflower, broccoli, swede, spinach, courgette etc. with herbs and spices and vinegar-based dressings.
I want to calculate the vitamin and mineral contents of each of the meals and will then work out if a multi-vitamin is needed. I imagine that it will be, not least because I strongly believe that the RDA figures are not high enough - I believe in the Patrick Holford approach and the idea of an Optimum Daily Allowance rather than the Recommended Daily Allowance.
I am doing LL, and after completing Route to management I do not want to have to eat this bunch of rather poor tasting chemicals again. I want to try to formulate a healthy VLCD that I can use from time to time as needed to control my weight - e.g before or after a holiday, or after a business trip with hotel/restaurant meals.
My plan is to construct menus that provide 100% nutrition using foods readily available in shops and supermarkets but which total no more than 800 kcals per day.
My initial thoughts are that the meals will be very low carb and higher protein - lean ham, lean steak, chicken, tuna, salmon etc. served with low carb veggies and salads - lettuce cucumber, tomatoes, celery, aubergine, mushroom, peppers, green beans, mange tout, baby corn, cauliflower, broccoli, swede, spinach, courgette etc. with herbs and spices and vinegar-based dressings.
I want to calculate the vitamin and mineral contents of each of the meals and will then work out if a multi-vitamin is needed. I imagine that it will be, not least because I strongly believe that the RDA figures are not high enough - I believe in the Patrick Holford approach and the idea of an Optimum Daily Allowance rather than the Recommended Daily Allowance.
Hi, I know eveyone here will know this but here goes - BMI is not always reliable.
I'm Asian but my bmi at target is 27. I wear 8/10 bottoms and 12/14 tops at that weight. I'm very big on top 32J and my skeleton will be broad shouldered. I also lift weights and so am very solid. My mum is a similar height but different body shape and stones lighter than me but wears bigger clothes!
If I am at 8 to 8.5 stone as the bmi for my height and ethnic origin shows, I look ill because I am ill - I have photos at that weight and it's not pretty!
A lot comes down to how you are comfortable looking and feeling.
I hope this helps - I really wanted to get my bmi to 25 but had to accept that I really shouldn't.
I'm Asian but my bmi at target is 27. I wear 8/10 bottoms and 12/14 tops at that weight. I'm very big on top 32J and my skeleton will be broad shouldered. I also lift weights and so am very solid. My mum is a similar height but different body shape and stones lighter than me but wears bigger clothes!
If I am at 8 to 8.5 stone as the bmi for my height and ethnic origin shows, I look ill because I am ill - I have photos at that weight and it's not pretty!
A lot comes down to how you are comfortable looking and feeling.
I hope this helps - I really wanted to get my bmi to 25 but had to accept that I really shouldn't.
