Introducing the new Pro-points plan: *UPDATED TO THE CHANGES IN 2011!*

[kagome75]

When I read somewhere on here, that eating your 29pp is like eating 16 (or something) on the old system I was skeptical

I am eating pretty much the same amount of food as before (sometimes a little more) and used to be on 19/20 points so wondering how someone could have worked out that people on 29pp per day are eating the equivalent to what someone on a fast start used to eat, or less...

as our friend before me told you, it depends on what you eat. The example menu I've put on the introductory post here showed a menu that was 14.5 points with the discover plan. FOURTEEN, not 16 or 18. And it came out as 29 with the new plan. If you ate more carbs and less proteins, the value of what you had is higher in the new plan. There are things that are even more than double the amount of points of the old plan. I made the example of the plantain, which was 1.5 points for the discover plan and is 6 propoints with the propoints plan.

You shouldn't compare the two plans. I really don't understand why people *STILL* complain about things. One week has gone, a lot of people have lost weight, even more weight than what they used to lose with the old plan. Some have stayed the same, but that COULD have happened even in the old plan. How many times did I force myself starving on 14 points per day (to recover from a dinner out at the beginning of the week) and I stayed the same with the old plan, or even put on weight? LOADS.

So can we please stop crying our eyes out for silly reasons, realise that we have to move on, that Weight Watchers has done a lot of research on the new plan and if they have discovered different ways to make us lose weight, if they have discovered that it's useless to starve yourself and it's better to have some fruit to fill yourself up, then we should just be grateful that they have updated the plan, follow it, trust them to make choices that are going to make us lose weight and be healthier and keep on going.

I'm very grateful to Weight Watchers. I have dieted my whole life, with the help of dietologists, endocrynologists, nutritionists and so on. Weight Watchers has been the first diet that has allowed me to get to goal, and in fact, to also get PAST goal, get to the lower end of my BMI scale with weights I hadn't seen since I was 10 or 11 years of age! If Weight Watchers makes changes that can help me feel fuller for longer, not feel ravenous at the end of the day but still lose weight and then maintain my weight loss by eating like a normal person... then it's very welcome to do it.

 

[kagome75]

Besides, in Europe before the Propoints plan, they were having another plan (the equivalent there than Discover plan) called FLEXIPOINTS. With Flexipoints too, up to 3 pieces of fruit every day were 0 points. Also, you could have at 0 points even these things:

alcohol to savour 3 tsp
egg white, 3 tsp
fish broth, 3 tsp
passata, 3 tsp
flour, 3 tsp
potato flour, 3 tsp
fructose, 3 tsp
gelatine, 3 sheets
grated cheese, 3 tsp
Ketchup, 3 tsp
yeast, 3 tbsp
Maizena, 3 tsp
green olives, 6
grated bread, 3 tsp
fresh cream, 3 tsp
grated parmesan, 3 tsp
SUGAR, 3 tsp

and although having 3 tsps of all this stuff that they could have FOR FREE EVERY DAY, a lot of people have lost LOADS of weight with the Flexipoints plan in Europe. The UK was the ONLY country to still count all fruit and stuff AND to not even have a slush pot like in the USA.

 

[likklebex]

Just a quick update on the do we / dont we have to eat ALL 29 PP debate. The answer is no.

I spoke personally with my leader tonight (who i found out tonight is a Diamond Leader) and she said you do NOT have to eat all 29. It's all about feeling satisfied and then stopping eating when you are full. xx

Oh, and i lost half a pund this week - which is pretty typical of my usual weight loss. I only had 20 of my 49 extra points and i didn't always eat 29 each day x

 

[size102b]

No one says we HAVE to eat the 29 pp a day its just recommended we should,it doesnt matter what rank your leader is,to get all the nessecary vitimuns etc we should have our daily amount,Ive been losing weight for 22 years and have done so many plans from lighterlife to atkins and you lose loads of weight on vlcd with 400-500 cals aday but they have all the nutirents needed where as ww doesnt if we dont eat all the daily pp.I dont see 29 as being alot anyway so am confused why people feel the need to not have them all,long term we will stick to a plan if we can have and not deprive our bodies of what we want,this is why most of us yoyo as we cant have certain things.
Like Julia said its all new e have lots to learn each to their own on how it works for them I for one wouldnt go below my 29 a day as I still have nearly 4 stone to lose,if I was near goal then maybe I wouldnt need them all,I will say keep sayong dont eat all your daily points is going to make some people feel like they shouldnt as its all new and people are confused.

 

[kagome75]

No one says we HAVE to eat the 29 pp a day its just recommended we should,it doesnt matter what rank your leader is,to get all the nessecary vitimuns etc we should have our daily amount,Ive been losing weight for 22 years and have done so many plans from lighterlife to atkins and you lose loads of weight on vlcd with 400-500 cals aday but they have all the nutirents needed where as ww doesnt if we dont eat all the daily pp.I dont see 29 as being alot anyway so am confused why people feel the need to not have them all,long term we will stick to a plan if we can have and not deprive our bodies of what we want,this is why most of us yoyo as we cant have certain things.
Like Julia said its all new e have lots to learn each to their own on how it works for them I for one wouldnt go below my 29 a day as I still have nearly 4 stone to lose,if I was near goal then maybe I wouldnt need them all,I will say keep sayong dont eat all your daily points is going to make some people feel like they shouldnt as its all new and people are confused.

ditto for everything you said, thank you very much. Nobody forces you to eat less than your 29 points per day, like nothing forced ME with the old plan to eat less than the recommended 14 points per day: I did have days when I ate 12 or even 11 points per day with the Discover plan, even when I should have been on 20 or 21, thinking that it would have helped my weight loss. I knew I couldn't bank them, but I thought it was going to be good long term. Did it? I don't know. luckily I alternated days when I did eat more than the points I should have had (never as much to justify the 12 or 11 points of the other days though) and I think it balanced the days I didn't, because otherwise NOW I would be feeling the consequences in maintenance, not being able to maintain my weight without starving myself. luckily I was still losing even in maintenance!

Anyway, as I said, nobody forces you to eat all of your recommended 29 points per day. What my leader told me is that you HAVE to eat them in order to get all of the nutrition that you need for your body to function properly and have a healthy weight loss. Then, if you prefer to starve yourself or not get all the nutritions that you need for the sake of not having the extra slice of cheese... then it's your choice. God has created mankind and has given them freedom of choice, Christians believe. So do as you want. But don't encourage other people not to eat all of their points because weight watchers does recommend to have all of your points every day, and you cannot save them.

 

[likklebex]

Im not sure where either of you are getting the idea from that i am or anyone else is suggesting that we should DELIBERATELY not use all the daily Pro points. WW is all about feeling satisfied. Wether that is with 25 ppoints on Monday, 29 ppoints on a Tues, 27 for the rest of the week or wether it is eating every last point everyday.

Kagome - in your first post on this thread you actually said...

You CANNOT (and I underline and stress out, CANNOT!!!!) go lower than your daily allowance. That is to ensure that all the right nutritions are taken during the day, that you take the right amount of carbs, proteins, fat and fibre for your body to function.

(my body functions just fine if i miss one or two points some days!)

But now you seem to be changing your mind and you are saying no-one is forcing anyone to eat all their points - so are you agreeing with me or not?

In the old plan yes, we were encouraged to eat all our points but my leader specifically said that this new plan and all the training she has been through has been very much focussed on stopping eating when we are full. (breaking habits of a lifetime and getting used to feeling satisfied and then stopping)

No-one is out to jeopardise their own weight loss by starving themselves - i have never said that we should starve ourselves or just eat less to lose less. All i have ever said is that it is NOT essential to eat every last point every day like it was suggested in the very first post

If i have had a good breakfast, fruit during the day, a lunch that has left me satisfied, a fairy cake, a good portion of dinner with garlic bread anda hot chocolate and i feel satisfied i.e. NOT HUNGRY then i am not then going to get something else just for the sake of eating - thats just ridiculous! Thats why we are fat in the first place as i keep saying!! It's common sense ladies.

I trust my leader 100% but more than that it is common sense in ANY diet to stop eating when you are full!

 

[likklebex]

Then, if you prefer to starve yourself or not get all the nutritions that you need for the sake of not having the extra slice of cheese... then it's your choice. God has created mankind and has given them freedom of choice, Christians believe. So do as you want. But don't encourage other people not to eat all of their points because weight watchers does recommend to have all of your points every day, and you cannot save them.

Erm, Kagome - i am NOT encouraging ANYONE to not eat their points!! That is not a fair comment to make. I am merely pointing out that MY leader has told us that it is NOT ESSENTIAL for anyone to eat all of thier points every day if you are feeling full / satisfied. One does not need to keep eating if they are full.

I am fully aware of the plan and that we are not allowed to save them. In the start booklet all it says is "If you dont use it, you lose it" If it were essential to use all your points it would not need to say that. It doesn't not say anything anywhere about having to use them all. So people should NOT be made to think that if they don't eat all of their points they wont lose weight and that it is ok to not have that extra chocolate bar / slice of bread / chunk of cheese if they are not hungry. A lot of people on here are trying their hardest to get OUT of the habit of eating for the sake of it when they are full. AS i have said before - it is common sense.

Plus - if WW is giving conflicting advice to different leaders then i would trust my common sense over anything they said anyway.

 

[kagome75]

Kagome - in your first post on this thread you actually said...

yes, and I totally agree with what I said. Even in the old plan I had been told that I COULD NOT go less than 14 points per day. I did. Nobody is looking into my house and into my meals, so if I don't want to have more than 12 points (with the old plan) I can, even if Weight Watchers doesn't recommend it.

What I have written there is what Weight Watchers recommends and hat my leader has told me. I find it extremely unusual that one leader has had a training that says something and another has received a different training. My leader told me "I know you don't eat all of your points now with discover, but you must promise me that you WILL be eating them with propoints because 29 is the minimum for your body to function". Now this is why I have written that down. Then, as I said, people have the capability to think for themselves and if they're stuffed and they don't want to eat any more... then they don't. My "CANNOT" can't stop them from doing it!

And yes, people here want to get out of the habit of eating when they don't need to, but there are many dieters who also starve themselves just because they can do it and maybe fill themselves with fruit at 0 points just because they want to eat the least points they can. I have done it myself with vegetables (that was how I could have only 11 or 12 points a day with the old plan) so I know it's possible. I did it only to compensate for nights out, but there are people who just do it because they think that the least they eat the better are they going to lose weight. That can stop their metabolism and actually make it become worse for them to lose any weight. That's why I'm saying that people must eat all of their points. 29 propoints is not much. I have been eating that every day for a while and it corresponds to anything between 1200 calories to 1500 calories per day. I keep track on Sparkpeople, and this INCLUDES even any grapes, banana, orange, pear or satusma I had, even if they don't count with WW. Any dietologist in the world would tell you not to eat less than 1200 kcal a day or it can harm your metabolism.

But of course if you eat a lot of fruit, even 23 pp per day can be 1200 kcal... would it contain the right amount of carbs, proteins fat and fibre though? I don't know!

Anyway, I feel like going circles here. I don't want to attack you and I think we're basically saying the same thing in two different ways. I'm saying eat your 29, but also have a good balance and eat the right amount of food for everything, carbs, proteins, fat, fibre... you're saying stop when you're satisfied. For me, being satisfied equals to have the correct nutrients, so it's the same thing. Can we draw a line now?

 

[likklebex]

What I have written there is what Weight Watchers recommends and hat my leader has told me. I find it extremely unusual that one leader has had a training that says something and another has received a different training. My leader told me "I know you don't eat all of your points now with discover, but you must promise me that you WILL be eating them with propoints because 29 is the minimum for your body to function". Now this is why I have written that down. Then, as I said, people have the capability to think for themselves and if they're stuffed and they don't want to eat any more... then they don't. My "CANNOT" can't stop them from doing it!

This is what i am saying tho - it's NOT WW who is recommending that we eat all the ppoints is it?! It is our individual leaders who have interpreted what they have learned in their individual ways. Your leader says "promise me you will eat them all" my leader is saying "please dont feel like you have to eat them all if you are satisfied because it WONT jeopardize your weight loss and you must not eat for the sake of eating" which i have sid before is common sense.

And yes, people here want to get out of the habit of eating when they don't need to, but there are many dieters who also starve themselves just because they can do it and maybe fill themselves with fruit at 0 points just because they want to eat the least points they can. I have done it myself with vegetables (that was how I could have only 11 or 12 points a day with the old plan) so I know it's possible. I did it only to compensate for nights out, but there are people who just do it because they think that the least they eat the better are they going to lose weight. That can stop their metabolism and actually make it become worse for them to lose any weight. That's why I'm saying that people must eat all of their points.

But you are using that word MUST again "you must eat your 29 points" which isnt the right word to use. You should eat all your PP if you are hungry - of course! No-one should be skimping on points to starve themselves cos thats not going to help anyone. I have said that all along. But you keep refering to these people as if i am encouraging them. I have only ever said skip points IF you are not hungry anymore ie it doesnt matter if you miss a couple of points sometimes because you are full NEVER have i said DONT eat all your points - it is ok if you dont manage all of them every day so i am NOT encouraging starvation.

On the flip side, all of those people who struggle to stop eating when they are full are going to listen to your advice and think it is ok to snack when they are not hungry and are never going to get out of that habit.

Anyway, I feel like going circles here. I don't want to attack you and I think we're basically saying the same thing in two different ways. I'm saying eat your 29, but also have a good balance and eat the right amount of food for everything, carbs, proteins, fat, fibre... you're saying stop when you're satisfied. For me, being satisfied equals to have the correct nutrients, so it's the same thing.

Yep i agree - completely. One would definitely be satisfied if they had had the right nutrients for their body to work so when that happens at 26 ppoints it is FINE to stop eating. Nuff said

Can we draw a line now?

Yep for sure cos i am tired of repeating myself

 

[size102b]

A lot of people on here are trying their hardest to get OUT of the habit of eating for the sake of it when they are full. AS i have said before - it is common sense.
QUOTE]

People usually over eat due to emotions sadly.
Maybe its best to stop the do an dont eat all your daily pp,TBH we are given a daily amount to eat being 29s the lowest I dont think its good to be confusing people?

 

[likklebex]

argh - see next post! its all gone wrong!

 

[likklebex]

A lot of people on here are trying their hardest to get OUT of the habit of eating for the sake of it when they are full. AS i have said before - it is common sense.

People usually over eat due to emotions sadly.
Maybe its best to stop the do an dont eat all your daily pp,TBH we are given a daily amount to eat being 29s the lowest I dont think its good to be confusing people?

How or why people over eat is not really the issue - we are all over eating and we all want to stop. I'm not confusing people - i am sharing what i have been told in my meeting by my leader which is that it is good practice to stop eating once you feel satisfied and to not just eat for the sake of eating. If this means that you dont always eat every single point allocated to you then it is not a huge issue. I am not telling people to stop eating or to deliberately not eat points, i am saying that my leader says it is not ESSENTIAL for anyone to eat ALL of thier daily points EVERY day.

I've had enough of this debate now anyway! People will do what they think is right at the end of the day, i only started talking about it because of the very first post which said you CANNOT go lower than your daily points which is clearly not a WW rule otherwise it would state it in the books and my leader would therefore not be able to tell me or anyone else that it was ok to miss a couple of points here and there.

And when i was saying it is common sense, i meant it is common sense that stopping eating when you are full will help you lose weight. I wasn't suggesting that people didn't have common sense, i was just trying to illustrate my point.

 

[size102b]

As said maybe just stop talking about it ?

 

[likklebex]

As said maybe just stop talking about it ?

Well i had but then you asked me a question / bought it up again Finished now x

 

[size102b]

I didn't ask a question, I stated what I feel and my last reply was maybe stop talking about it ? The ? Was why keep talking about it. No question lol.

 

[Starlight]

Ok can we make that the last word on the whole 'should you/shouldnt you eat your points' to be honest its now got totally confusing. This thread is to help people get their head round the new PP system and its getting counter productive now.

Lets end this part of the conversation now please

 

[likklebex]

I didn't ask a question, I stated what I feel and my last reply was maybe stop talking about it ? The ? Was why keep talking about it. No question lol.

Well yeh, thats what i meant about bringing it up again. I'd already agreed with Kagome that we would draw a line under it and then you brought it up again with a comment so i just gave my opinion on your comment.

Done now x

 

[size102b]

Starlight I totally agree.

 

[likklebex]

Well yeh, I actually agreed to end it about 2 hours ago with the person i was debating with in the first place but then when comments were made by someone different i felt i was within my rights to reply.

I was just expressing what i personally had been told compared to what someone else had been told. It seems there is still conflicting advice from different leaders and therefore people will have the same questions as we raised. So i dont think our debate has made things any more unclear because it will be what others are thinking about as well - its a very new thing and we all need to be singing from the same hymn sheet surely?

Anyway... x

 

[Starlight]

Im going to lock this thread if this continues!! Ive asked very nicely that this part of the subject is now closed and youre not doing it. It doesnt matter whos said what now. Please do as Ive asked and drop this subject now

Starlight
Moderator