Jo's Juddd diary 2012

[MinnieMel]

Um... Please please don't take offence at what I'm about to write. But I really don't get why you feel you need to do this. If you hadn't lost weight for several weeks, then I'd happily agree it was the right thing to do. But you've been losing a steady pound a week. You've spotted from doing daily weigh ins that your weight bounces up several pounds after up days. Of course it does. You eat a lot more on UDs. But the weight change has to be due to water. It's not fat increase - if it was, it wouldn't come straight back off again. I honestly don't get why you feel a need to find a way of reducing the up day bounce up. That's going to be practically impossible to do, because the water weight is merely associated with increased bulk and carb and salt intake on an UD. It seems that you've convinced yourself that eating fewer calories on an UD is going to speed up your weight loss - whereas in all likelihood, it's just as likely to slow it down. In reducing to 1500 calories on an UD you are in effect only taking in an average of 800 calories a day.

Weeks where you stay the same happen on every diet, even VLCDs like Cambridge. STSs often have nothing to do with calorie intake. They usually have nothing to do with whether you've lost fat. On a calorie restricted diet you will lose fat (and most likely a bit of muscle) and varying amounts of water. The water variations are the most unpredictable of the lot. I really really don't think you need to mess about with your calorie intake at the moment. That's your 'diet head' talking. You're doing fine doing what you're doing. Messing about with it is more likely to mess with your results - and definitely your head.

Why are you trying to fix something that isn't broken?

Fab post, Lily.

 

[bajoleth]

Thanks for your post Lily and I havent taken offence I know you are trying to help. The reason I am trying to find my up day maintainence allowance is that even though I havent had a STS and I know that its def not Fat weight, I can see a pattern emerging where its going to get very hard to maintain even a 1lb a week loss, I know I bounce UP and Down and the gains don't bother me but when I gain 3lbs after an UP day it takes a 4lb loss to make a difference in my overall weight what I am finding over the past 2 weeks is that I am not losing all of my UP day gain or losing the same as I have gained . Granted I have had an overall loss which I am delighted with but as it stands in order for me to just STS I have to lose 4lbs, I need my UP day gains to be a more manageable 1 or 2 lbs. 1500 is only a starting point, I know its too low but I have to start somewhere, I need to find that magic number where I don't gain 3 or 4lbs which I believe to be excessive. My UP day weekends will stay the same its just the weekday UPs I need to get under control, For 3 weeks I have gone up as far as 12 11 even though my official weight is lowering, that shouldn't happen.
I have been on Judd for 9 weeks now maybe my body needs a shake up, I appreciate the advice that if its not broken don't fix it but as I have been doing my daily weighs for 5 weeks now I have seen the way the last 2 weeks have been going and the pattern is not the same as it used to be , I may find that I will stall by altering my pattern but I want to see whether I can find that magic number that will help me in the long run x

 

[Lily]

Glad you didn't take offence. It was one of those posts where afterwards I wondered whether I should've said anything. I know you're not daft. :hug99: One question though - what's your official UD number and are you currently eating at that level?

I know from reading the LCF forum that mileage definitely varies. Some folk didn't lose until they started eating DD calories, others found they had to increase their UD calories. Are you keeping track of your UD calories? (sorry that's 2 questions!)

 

[Lily]

I need my UP day gains to be a more manageable 1 or 2 lbs. 1500 is only a starting point, I know its too low but I have to start somewhere, I need to find that magic number where I don't gain 3 or 4lbs which I believe to be excessive.

I don't think that is excessive though. I think that's normal! I've been known to gain 5 pounds overnight (and lose them the next night).

It's water (plus the weight of the food you consumed if your body hasn't sent it down the loo ) It's physiologically impossible for it to be anything else. I suspect the only way to avoid it would be to either do low carb on an UD or reduce salt intake.

 

[bajoleth]

Ooooh I do love my salt, I know what you are saying makes sense honest My allowance is 2200 , I eat about 2400 and about 3000 on the weekends so I need to bring them down but its finding the number that my gains are smaller is what I am after, I have sts after a second UP day (on the weekend) but never after a weekday UP and if I could bring the gains to about 1 or 2 lbs then I know continuing weight loss will be assured. It may not be possible but I want to try and see if I can find that elusive magic number I may just find that the gains are less but so are the losses in which case I will be in the same position as now, I just feel I want to try x

 

[Lily]

That makes a bit more sense. To be honest, 2200 sounds a bit high - I weigh a fair bit more than you and my UD allowance on the no exercise setting is something like 2040 cals. So.... Why go to 1500 when you've just admitted you're eating more than 2200? How about starting with 2000 instead? I know the only way to know for sure is to experiment, but I honestly think you're starting your experiment from the wrong place. I really think you're in danger of suppressing your metabolism, rather than kicking it.

And damn it, I promised myself I wouldn't say this - but I think I have to. Stop daily weighing. It's messing with your head. Think about it - if all you'd seen was the weigh ins on your official weigh days, you wouldn't even be thinking like this. . Think about what you might have said to me if I was considering doing the same!

 

[fizzyfluff]

Sorry Jo, have to agree with lily here. You know the science of juddd, your up days are as important as the downs. I'm feeling a bit like you in that my gain after my weekends seems like do much, that's why I'm planning to stop my double up day at the weekend with the thought being the sooner back to dd will hopefully have a positive impact.

A couple of weeks ago I did a couple of im days during the week and only managed a 0.5 loss that week, have had better results when I'm eating my full intake.

By all means experiment and see what happens, but if results arebt great promise me youll come back and do your full allowance and see what your results are with it x

20 lost : 47 to goal

 

[bajoleth]

Thanks Girls , you are the best You know sometimes I think its all too good to be true and its going to come crashing around me at some point. So deep breath- okay I am not going to weigh now until sat morning and I am going to limit my UPs to 2000 for now and see how I go, thanks for knocking some sense into me, and yes Lily I can hear myself now telling someone else exactly what you told me Thanks girls xx

 

[Lily]

You've just made me very happy - it worried me that you were contemplating such drastic measures, especially as you're our star JUDDDer.

One last thing okay, and then I'll shut up. This is a question that was recently answered (April 2012) by Dr J himself in response to a poster on the LCF forum - maybe you've seen it?

Hi there- it seems that there is a lot of confusion surrounding UD calories- do I have to count them or not? In the FAQ it appears that I don't, but I hear from a lot of JUDDDER's that it is essential- if you go above the calculator you will gain weight and if you go below the calculator your metabolism will slow down. Please advise! Thanks Dear Nicole, Most people find when they start the JUDDDD that they continue to eat normally on the UD. That is, they consume the same number of calories they are used to eating because their appetite doesn't increase. However, after around 8-12 weeks there is an adaptation by your hunger mechanism to eat more on the UD. At that point it is necessary to limit your calories on the UD to whatever your normal daily intake was at the start, It is absolutely essential when you reach this point to start using a food log recording the number of calories you eat and at what time of day. It is essential to fill it out at the times you eat---do not wait until night time. This self-monitoring is by far the most effective way to be aware of your intake and prevent going over your number. It is true that if you go over you will not lose weight and if you go under your metabolism will slow because your body is trying to preserve energy. It is the alternating pattern which prevents the slowing of your metabolism. Cordially, James B . Johnson, M.D.

 

[Phoenyx]

Thanks Girls , you are the best You know sometimes I think its all too good to be true and its going to come crashing around me at some point. So deep breath- okay I am not going to weigh now until sat morning and I am going to limit my UPs to 2000 for now and see how I go, thanks for knocking some sense into me, and yes Lily I can hear myself now telling someone else exactly what you told me Thanks girls xx

Sounds like a plan! I haven't waded in on this one because I honestly don't know what to advise, but just to let you know am thinking of you and watching with interest.

I do wish one of us would accidentally stumble across a way of losing 6-8lbs a week, then share the secret, though!!!

 

[Phoenyx]

You've just made me very happy - it worried me that you were contemplating such drastic measures, especially as you're our star JUDDDer.

One last thing okay, and then I'll shut up. This is a question that was recently answered by Dr J himself in response to a poster on the LCF forum - maybe you've seen it?

Wow that's interesting coz Jo is exactly at that point!

 

[bajoleth]

Thanks Phoenyx and thanks again Lily
Thats very interesting as like Phoenyx says I am exactly at that point, so what he is saying is that I shouldn't go over or under my Up day allowance is that right ?
I am going to calculate my allowances now and be back with what it comes up with x

 

[Lily]

Sounds like a plan! I haven't waded in on this one because I honestly don't know what to advise, but just to let you know am thinking of you and watching with interest.

I do wish one of us would accidentally stumble across a way of losing 6-8lbs a week, then share the secret, though!!!

Not possible even if you eat nothing, unfortunately. 3-4 pounds a week is the maximum for most of us (unless you've got loads to lose, and even then it slows down after a few weeks). Plus you'd lose a lot of lean muscle if you ate nothing.

Ah well. At least doing JUDDD you get to enjoy the ride!

 

[Carrieblue]

Good luck bajoleth with your new update cal range x

 

[Phoenyx]

Not possible even if you eat nothing, unfortunately. 3-4 pounds a week is the maximum for most of us (unless you've got loads to lose, and even then it slows down after a few weeks). Plus you'd lose a lot of lean muscle if you ate nothing.

Ah well. At least doing JUDDD you get to enjoy the ride!

Magic potion? No? Back to the drawing board....

 

[Lily]

Thanks Phoenyx and thanks again Lily
Thats very interesting as like Phoenyx says I am exactly at that point, so what he is saying is that I shouldn't go over or under my Up day allowance is that right ?
I am going to calculate my allowances now and be back with what it comes up with x

Well... What he actually says is

At that point it is necessary to limit your calories on the UD to whatever your normal daily intake was at the start

That's an amount that was probably above what the calculator gives you. I still reckon 2000's about right.

 

[Trefoil]

I do didn't reply because I didn't know what to say eeek!!

I couldn't agree more with lily and everyone though- I've never had a plan work so well in my life!!!

Let's leave it until we really have to change it- I'm just changing mine to try and stop my tummy hurting!!!

Ruth
X

 

[bajoleth]

Well... What he actually says is

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That's an amount that was probably above what the calculator gives you. I still reckon 2000's about right.

Ahh right, well my allowance has changed on the calculator to 1818, so do you think 2000 will be alright, then IF I do STS for more than a week bring it down to 1800??

 

[Loopeylou]

Ahh right, well my allowance has changed on the calculator to 1818, so do you think 2000 will be alright, then IF I do STS for more than a week bring it down to 1800??

He talks about 500/2000 in his book as a guide, I think if you've been averaging 2400 weekdays and more at weekends I really think 2000 would be a better start.
As you said if you STS you can always lower to 1818 xx

Sent from my iPhone using MiniMins

 

[Lily]

Ahh right, well my allowance has changed on the calculator to 1818, so do you think 2000 will be alright, then IF I do STS for more than a week bring it down to 1800??

Sounds a very good idea to me. I think the trick will be not to get too stressy about it being a little bit more than 2000 if needs be - the thing we want to avoid is making this feel too much like a diet. Give it a whirl. I need to rein in my UDs so I may join you soon! Just cos I can eat loads it doesn't mean I should!