Keeping it simple...

[zoe.]

And now for my favourite quote: If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got.

So what am I doing differently this week, that's the big question.

One idea of mine is to turn this into a game and have cards which I can "play" at any point during the week, mainly to make sure I get treats and therefore might not have to resort to a binge.

My reward cards for the week would be:

- 2 x rest days (no exercise)
- 1 x cooked breakfast of any sort (to give me permission to indulge if I'm feeling hungry, which I was this morning)
- 1 x takeaway or indulgent restaurant dinner
- 1 x sweet treat (slice of cake etc.)

I haven't thought this through properly yet, but I'm quite liking the idea as a way of trying to break the binge cycle by making what I see as naughty treats "official" - because this week, although I told myself I was allowed them, I still tried to do without them.

More thought required...

 

[Iris]

Zoe... just been reading through your diary, and I want to say you must be a thoroughly amazing, resilient and strong woman to have got through what you've got through and still be a lovely person at the end of it. Can't imagine what it's like to care for the two little ones single-handedly, but the fact that you do it and you're also planning a new career *and* confronting the diet demons is pretty darn phenomenal. I hope you have people around you who remind you of that fact, and often!

You've been doing so well. Dare I say... too well? I don't think you'll mind me saying that (hope not!) because I think you feel the same way too, deep down. It's strange, just reading through your most recent entries, it was indeed like you were gearing up for a binge, kind of laying the groundwork and explaining the reasons beforehand. I recognise this pattern so, so well, because I've done
it more times than I can count over the years. I love your insight into the behaviour, and I think your attitude to one small lapse speaks volumes - you recognise it as just a temporary blip, you accept that they're going to happen now and again, and you're back in the saddle without too much self-flagellation.

Binges are fascinating from a psychological perspective, though, aren't they?! It can be so hard to analyse your own behaviour, though, maybe because you're standing too close to the mirror to see what's in front of you, you know?Here's my theory, forgive me if it's totally off base...

I think you've made a kind of subconscious pact with yourself. Your conscious mind won't allow the regular carbs, or regular rest days, or anything less than very strict adherence, because your conscious mind has enough to deal with - it requires rigid control in the area of diet: no ambiguity, no grey areas, just stick to the rules and tick the boxes. But your subconscious operates on a different level. I suppose it's there as a safety buffer between the mind and the body, it's there to protect you and make sure you have what you need. And your subconscious pact is that you'll be extremely virtuous for days on end, then you'll hit the biscuits. You'll hit them because a) they're scrummy, b) you've earned them, and c) you need a rest from the rules.

I think it's even possible that subconsciously you denied yourself a rest day because you'd already decided, on that deeper level, that you were going to have a binge. Preemptive penance in a way. And the more tired you became, the more inevitable (and permissible!) was the binge.

There's a number of factors at work, I feel. There's the tiredness - with your routine and your lifestyle, you must be thoroughly knackered, especially if you're cutting the carbs. Tiredness is probably the main one, it's very easy to underestimate how strongly your body can crave a particular food group, even if your conscious mind is absolutely determined to ignore it. And the signals from the body will eventually override even the most iron will, because the body needs its sustenance. "If you won't give me pasta, I will have to take the biscuits then!" it says, "and I'm going to have the whole bloody packet as I'm your body, you're working me hard, and I need them because I don't know when you'll next allow me to have some carbs!" See how the cycle develops? Your body sends the old panic signals to your brain, your conscious mind rejects them, but your subconscious steps in as peacemaker and intermediary and modifies your behaviour to at least allow you to feel you've earned the binge through strenuous exercise and denial.

That's maybe the bottom line: the regime you feel you need to satisfy your conscious mind's need for control is one that your body simply can't put up with. The friction between mind and body is just too great, so the subconscious has to step in and take over when things near crisis point. I wonder what could have happened if you hadn't had the treats? Could you have become so tired you fell asleep, forgot something important, lost your temper with the kids, had a lapse in attention, or even come down with a simple cold or flu? I think the binging may well have been your body's way of protecting itself from what it perceives as danger. And I know it may not seem like it, but cutting down on a fundamentally necessary food group is dangerous in the long term. More to the point, it's not sustainable and I think you know that. Your body knows it anyway!

I'm a binger myself. I'm not going to use past tense. It's been nearly 14 months since I had a binge on 'bad' foods, but I still regularly eat beyond the point of fullness. The only difference now is that I do it with foods that are relatively low calorie. Instead of 12 snickers bars (a doddle for me in the past!) I'll sit down to a carb-laden evening meal with 400g+ of broccoli, then afterwards I will demolish an entire pint of Hartley's sugarfree orange jelly with a punnet each of strawberries and raspberries. All in, my evening meal is about 700 calories. And, really, I'm not hungry when I hit the jelly. So why do I need to eat it? I've thought about this so much and I've come to the conclusion that it can't just be pegged by that convenient excuse of emotional eating. Yes, I may get bored and lonely and tired, but beyond that I just really enjoy eating! It's a sensual thing - the flavours, the textures, how it feels when I chew it and swallow it. I just love food! Seems like a lot of the theories regarding habitual overeating can sometimes underplay the sheer physical pleasure side of the equation. It could just be that, for some of us, there are few things that give the same level of comfort and happiness that food does, so if we're ever going to lose the weight for good then we have to find a way of doing it that still involves eating plenty. I think that's the pact I've made with myself. I'm allowed a daily binge so long as it's on acceptable foods. I can't seem to eradicate that greediness in me, so I've had to focus it away from chocolate, but accept that I just won't stick to any diet if I don't get my big evening meal.

I think your ideas for combating the biscuit raids are all sound. You know what you need to do. I think 2 rest days a week is an excellent idea, as is embracing the carb without fear! In the early days of my diet when the going was tough I got into the habit of having a big old roast dinner and pudding on sundays. I just kind of fell into it, really. Hadn't intended to because I thought it'd be slacking, but there was a lovely little reasonably priced restaurant near my home that did a fab carvery, and after one outing I was hooked. But just having that day to look forward to, knowing I'd have a good meal (yes, with lots of roast potatoes and gravy and a pudding!) really did keep me on the straight and narrow during the week. And it felt good. I was eating a normal meal surrounded by normal people and not in the grip of that strange neurotic fantasyland of dieting. I think something similar could maybe work for you, too? A day of rest from exercise, and a day to eat good nutritious food - no need to think of it as a day off the diet - just a day when you have a very tasty meal that you enjoy and a treat of a pudding to look forward to. Wasn't there some study that indicated if we all ate a christmas dinner every day of the year, we'd actually be a lot slimmer?! I think there's truth in that. A good sunday roast type meal is balm for both body and soul.

Whatever you decide to do, I think it has to be underpinned by listening to your body and treating it with a bit of kindness, because with the amount of work and emotional stress you have to deal with, you deserve that kindness and patience. Just taking your foot off the incredibly demanding accelerator and giving yourself some breathing spaces during the week may help eliminate the conflict between the conscious mind and body and get the two working harmoniously together. Think of this, too - if you know for certain where and when and what your next 'treat' will be, you'll probably think about food a lot less. You won't have to scan the horizon constantly for pitfalls and temptations, and your subconscious won't sneakily be planning the next opportunity for a binge because your body won't need it.

Crikey, I've babbled insanely. But hey, I'm a food addict so this stuff is endlessly interesting to me!

I really hope today is a good day for you.

 

[zoe.]

Iris, you are amazing. You have hit the nail on the head about a dozen times in one message! I don't know what to say. I cried (am still having a little bawl), when I read your post. In a good way. There are loads of people on this website, lovely people, but all of our problems are different (sometimes only subtly), and I still felt very alone. But you truly understand what I'm going through, and the little lies I tell myself.

So this is going to be a long post, in response to yours...

I want to say you must be a thoroughly amazing, resilient and strong woman to have got through what you've got through and still be a lovely person at the end of it. Can't imagine what it's like to care for the two little ones single-handedly, but the fact that you do it and you're also planning a new career *and* confronting the diet demons is pretty darn phenomenal.

Thank you, I'm touched. It's not always easy but I'm a lot luckier than some people in my situation.

You've been doing so well. Dare I say... too well? I don't think you'll mind me saying that (hope not!) because I think you feel the same way too, deep down.

Yup, you're right, I do know it. And deep down, I was setting myself up for a binge. Binging just gives me something that simple eating doesn't. It seems to give me "time off". I know that sounds strange. Time off from worrying about what I look like, about when I'm next exercising, about what I'm going to eat next, even about whether I'm going to slip into a binge. It's almost a relief. And I've picked myself up so many times from a binge, I know I can do it so that doesn't worry me either.

like you were gearing up for a binge, kind of laying the groundwork and explaining the reasons beforehand.

True! I've been caught out...I didn't realise it but the pattern was definitely there...

you recognise it as just a temporary blip, you accept that they're going to happen now and again, and you're back in the saddle without too much self-flagellation

It's true that that can be a good thing, but it's a double-edged sword, because as I said above, it almost makes it easier for me to binge -because I don't have all that worry about getting back to it and the emotional stress of guilt etc. It's true, I don't feel guilty. It's not great, I know that, and it's cr*p for my body, but binging has become so much part of my life. I do want to stop it but I don't want to stop the relief and feelings it brings.

And your subconscious pact is that you'll be extremely virtuous for days on end, then you'll hit the biscuits. You'll hit them because a) they're scrummy, b) you've earned them, and c) you need a rest from the rules.

I love rules. I want someone else to tell me how to live my life. I have to make so many decisions on my own - from the titchy, what time to get the girls up, what to feed them, what to organise for their birthdays etc. - and larger ones: where do we go on holiday considering I'm on my own but need a break too, and the really important ones: what school to send them to,what career can I do and enjoy and still manage to look after them, how many hours of care by others can they have and not be scarred for life etc.?

I want someone else to make those decisions with me, or at least tell me that I'm making okay decisions. I have loads of self help books etc. because I'm looking for someone else to tell me I'm doing the right thing, or how to do the right thing. Same with dieting. Except none of them ever work because the person writing them doesn't know me. It's also a self esteem thing. My self esteem has been bad for a long time. It's getting better, but for a long time I needed someone else (even a book) to validate my decisions.

There are so many things in my life that aren't right. That I have control over, but I don't seem to manage. I don't manage my money well, my house is somewhat messy and cluttered (not terrible, but not at my ideal standard by any means), I don't sit and listen to my daughters read enough, the dog doesn't get enough walks, I don't cook enough meals from scratch etc. etc. Add to that I must exercise, I must eat well / lose weight / get the dog groomed / do the accounts for our business - yes I run a business as well - keep in touch with my friends etc. etc. and my life is just one long to-do list that I don't do. Quite a lot I just avoid, and it's not even that I don't have time, it's that it never goes away and I don't want to do it anymore. But I have to. I try not to resent my ex but it's hard sometimes.

Bingeing gives me a break from all that worry. I'm not sure why really. It may be to do with the "well, if I'm going to be cr*p I may as well be really cr*p" mentality. But for some reason, when I'm bingeing I let myself sit on the sofa with a novel, the state of the house doesn't bother me as much, my to do list disappears, I'm happier to let the kids stay at home and play - I think I just stop trying to be perfect. And I crave that. As well as food.

Preemptive penance in a way. And the more tired you became, the more inevitable (and permissible!) was the binge.

definately!

Tiredness is probably the main one, it's very easy to underestimate how strongly your body can crave a particular food group, even if your conscious mind is absolutely determined to ignore it. And the signals from the body will eventually override even the most iron will, because the body needs its sustenance. "If you won't give me pasta, I will have to take the biscuits then!" it says, "and I'm going to have the whole bloody packet as I'm your body, you're working me hard, and I need them because I don't know when you'll next allow me to have some carbs!" See how the cycle develops? Your body sends the old panic signals to your brain, your conscious mind rejects them, but your subconscious steps in as peacemaker and intermediary and modifies your behaviour to at least allow you to feel you've earned the binge through strenuous exercise and denial.

Yup. And I always binge on carbs and forbidden stuff. Even stuff I love, like parma ham, if I eat it on a diet, I will never eat it on a binge. My main binge foods are milk chocolate, sweets, biscuits, cakes, pasta, potatoes, white bread etc. I don't really banish fats on a diet, so I don't really binge on them.

That's maybe the bottom line: the regime you feel you need to satisfy your conscious mind's need for control is one that your body simply can't put up with. The friction between mind and body is just too great, so the subconscious has to step in and take over when things near crisis point.

I sort of agree, but then part of my mind says, but other people survive on a lot less. And lots of people cut out carbs e.g. atkins. Am I just using this as an excuse? Why can't I survive with less carbs?

I wonder what could have happened if you hadn't had the treats?

Now that is a very interesting question. I wasn't terribly tired on Sat morning, but I felt very hungry and like nothing could satisfy it. That's why I wonder what would have happened if I just ate a huge meal. Bound to be less damaging. But I just couldn't let myself. I did have a bigger breakfast, but still low carb. Why couldn't I just let myself

I'm a binger myself.

commiserations!

It's been nearly 14 months since I had a binge on 'bad' foods

well done!

but I still regularly eat beyond the point of fullness. The only difference now is that I do it with foods that are relatively low calorie. Instead of 12 snickers bars (a doddle for me in the past!) I'll sit down to a carb-laden evening meal with 400g+ of broccoli, then afterwards I will demolish an entire pint of Hartley's sugarfree orange jelly with a punnet each of strawberries and raspberries. All in, my evening meal is about 700 calories. And, really, I'm not hungry when I hit the jelly. So why do I need to eat it? I've thought about this so much and I've come to the conclusion that it can't just be pegged by that convenient excuse of emotional eating. Yes, I may get bored and lonely and tired, but beyond that I just really enjoy eating! It's a sensual thing - the flavours, the textures, how it feels when I chew it and swallow it. I just love food! Seems like a lot of the theories regarding habitual overeating can sometimes underplay the sheer physical pleasure side of the equation. It could just be that, for some of us, there are few things that give the same level of comfort and happiness that food does, so if we're ever going to lose the weight for good then we have to find a way of doing it that still involves eating plenty. I think that's the pact I've made with myself. I'm allowed a daily binge so long as it's on acceptable foods. I can't seem to eradicate that greediness in me, so I've had to focus it away from chocolate, but accept that I just won't stick to any diet if I don't get my big evening meal.

That is part of the problem I have. I can't imagine a life completely without using food in a non food / non emotional way.

A day of rest from exercise, and a day to eat good nutritious food - no need to think of it as a day off the diet - just a day when you have a very tasty meal that you enjoy and a treat of a pudding to look forward to.

I agree with you. A day off the diet wouldn't work for me because I'd just binge. I can't have a "normal" day - I'm not sure what one of those is yet. But a meal out, that I can do. Although it'll take me a while to get used to it and I'll need to make sure I'm doing something afterwards to distract me so I don't use it as an excuse to launch into a binge.

But one other problem still exists that I need to make a decision on. To do that, I really need to think about giving up dieting. Accepting that by sorting my eating problems, my weight problems will take care of themselves. But I'm not at that stage. I still want to actively lose weight, and as much as I say time doesn't matter, it does. It really does. And until I can resolve that in my mind and mean it, I will still be looking for the next quick fix.

if you know for certain where and when and what your next 'treat' will be, you'll probably think about food a lot less. You won't have to scan the horizon constantly for pitfalls and temptations, and your subconscious won't sneakily be planning the next opportunity for a binge because your body won't need it.

That would be bliss!
I'm glad you find this stuff endlessly interesting, because you have been no end of help to me, and I truly have got a lot off my chest that I otherwise wouldn't have thought about. I'm going to take a bit of a break now because my head is reeling a bit!, and then I'm going to re-read this and have a long think about where I want to go next.

Thank you iris - you are one in a million.

 

[** Just Jools **]

You've been doing so well. Dare I say... too well? I agree.

I don't think you'll mind me saying that (hope not!) because I think you feel the same way too, deep down. It's strange, just reading through your most recent entries, it was indeed like you were gearing up for a binge, kind of laying the groundwork and explaining the reasons beforehand. I agree with this too & think I said something about it earlier last week.

I think your attitude to one small lapse speaks volumes and you're back in the saddle without too much self-flagellation. That's a fantastic sign and shows you're in the right frame of mind to continue your journey.

I'm a binger myself. I'm not going to use past tense. It's been nearly 14 months since I had a binge on 'bad' foods, but I still regularly eat beyond the point of fullness. I am too but am not sure how long it's been since my last one on "bad" foods as I honestly can't remember but I too still eat beyond the point of fullness on "good" food. Again I don't know why either.

Hey Zoe. How's it going today?

Some fantastic advice/insight from Iris above. All of which I agree with as you can see! x

 

[** Just Jools **]

Hiya. Are you ok? x x

 

[** Just Jools **]

Hope you're ok. x :hug99:

 

[** Just Jools **]

Good luck for weigh in tomorrow. x x

 

[Iris]

Hope you're ok. x :hug99:

Me too! Sometimes you can just need to take some space and time off from the regime and all the analysis - and delving deep can be pretty scary. There's times when I try to think through everything and then just want to crawl into bed and hide under the duvet because it's just too much to get a handle on!

Zoe, I hope you're having a break and a well-deserved rest. My jaw dropped when I read you ran a business, too, in addition to everything else. By criminy, you're wonderwoman! Seriously, sounds like you spread yourself incredibly thin and give everything to everyone else, precious little to yourself, and then fret that you can't reach an inhuman level of perfection, when you're doing such a remarkable job balancing everything else.

Binging -does- give you time off. It takes you to a different reality where your craving body finally feels like it's getting what it needs, so it stops bombarding your brain with screaming messages. That's the break you get - a little bit of peace while the body fuels up on what it's been totally denied. Sounds like it's your time for allowing yourself to be human and letting the white-knuckle grip on all the reins loosen just a little bit.

I don't know what's at the base of the binging - there has to be some big truth down there for you, for me, for all bingers. It's just so hard to dig it up, and I think it probably varies for everyone. But I think one major element is the self-perpetuating cycle of control, lapse, guilt, punishment. The main thing is punishment - believing that for a diet to truly work for you, it has to hurt. It has to be hard. It has to be absolutely clad in iron and controlled rigidly. Now, the question is why? Is it because we don't like our bodies very much and think they have to be punished for all the binging they've done so we can whip them into shape?

I think it might be that. Not liking yourself. If you don't like yourself (and I will admit here, I'm not a fan of me at all!) then it makes sense on a warped level to regard a diet as appropriate punishment. No leeway, no patience, no kindness, just deny yourself everything and tick the exercise boxes. That's an impossible standard, though. We set ourselves up to fail and then the punishment begins all over again, and it's round and round in ever decreasing circles.

Maybe the big lesson is accepting that getting your weight back under control can't involve punishment, because the more pain you cause yourself, the more your body and mind will need its lapses and binges to mend itself and feel better. Kindness has to be the approach, even if you can't consciously accept that you deserve it - you have to accept that it's the only thing that will work in the long run. I know that liking yourself can be tough for people like us, but I think that -you- should like yourself. Look at everything you do for other people, all the things you've achieved and the changes you've made and the storms you've weathered. Your body isn't the enemy - it's a valiant survivor! And neither your body nor mind deserve what amounts to cyclical torture. You deserve peace and comfort and happiness and the patience to give your body the right amount of good foods and a healthy number of treats to keep you steady.

I know this might sound daft, but honestly, write it down if you think it'll help. Put it on cardboard in black marker and stick it to the fridge. 'Be kind to yourself - it's the only thing that works.' I bet you wouldn't let anyone you knew or cared about treat themselves so harshly. With all you do, and with being a perfectionist, I know you must have incredibly high standards, but I bet you don't demand half as much of other people as you do of yourself. And the irony is that you already do so fabulously that the bar is set extremely highly, but you keep raising it for yourself! It's like expecting even an Olympic class pole-vaulter to be able to leap over a mountain.

Anyway, enough blather from me. I do hope you're having a good rest and letting the old body and mind recuperate a bit.

 

[Georgiestar]

sorry to see you had a few binges, but it takes time to change, try to treat it not as a diet but as a new lifestyle and dont deny yourself things just take control, but thats easier said than done, positivity also helps though

 

[Georgiestar]

hello Zoe, how are you getting on?