Man suing the NHS for a gastric bypass .....opinions

[judywoody]

Yeah its a sad fact, you get a medical card if your on social welfare or low income families sometimes but unfortunately those of us who work have to pay :cry: I honestly would have to be dying to see the doctor because it usually ends up costing €50 for the visit that lasts 5mins then you have to pay for xrays, a&e if you have to go and all your medication on top of that. Last time it cost me €200 and i had no money for food or petrol for the rest of the month.

Its why i personally get angry about people taking advantage of free health care. and we were asked for our opinions on the matter of him sueing the NHS and thats what i put forward so dont understand the anger in the thread.

OMW!!!

I never knew that!!
Do you have to pay into the social system though?? And how much would it cost to get private insurance??

That's unbelievable....considering that Ireland is so expensive anyway..do you pay less tax at least?

 

[Little strawberry]

Ok - I do agree with some arguments on both sides here...let's have a look at the facts:
-his weight issues (probably self-induced) are LIFE THREATENING
-he said a low calorie diet didn't work
-WLS will do exactly THAT - it will restrict his calories to a minimum (and might possible put him into another life threatening situation - lack of nutrition)
-He is desperate (obviously not desperate enough to try and stick to a strict diet for a few month - if a diet won't work then WLS won't either)
-and he is NOT desperate enough either to spend his own savings on WLS)

Well, yes "postcode lottery" can be unfair. But we are not talking about denied cancer treatment or the like. We are talking about WLS surgery. A service that is free in SOME PLC's but not everywhere - for ONE particular reason - It's an unnecessary luxury! What would help him (and would probably be cheaper) is monitored hospital treatment (don't know if something like this exists in GB) to see if he really can't lose weight on a calorie restricted diet and to help him to recover from his eating disorder (yes, overeating is an eating disorder - even if you are over 60) and psychological treatment.

Don't get me wrong - I know it is hard to lose weight, I did it myself hundreds of times. And for whatever reason he can't stick to it. BUT if you are REALLY desperate and in a life threatening situation then you can stick to everything.

But the way - helping smokers to treat their addiction is not quite as expensive as WLS.

In this man's defence I've heard that much of his weight problems are caused by medication rather than being self-induced.

Even desperate people can struggle with a diet, especially a VLCD if they are used to eating much more. I know that I am not always a saint when following SW but I do have the willpower to get back on track.

Also not everybody can afford to pay for WLS themselves. I wouldn't ever choose it myself but know that I could never afford it anyway. This man will obviously not be working and if his family are having to look after him they probably aren't making very much money either.

Sent from my iPhone using MiniMins

 

[kingleds]

Yeah its a sad fact, you get a medical card if your on social welfare or low income families sometimes but unfortunately those of us who work have to pay :cry: I honestly would have to be dying to see the doctor because it usually ends up costing €50 for the visit that lasts 5mins then you have to pay for xrays, a&e if you have to go and all your medication on top of that. Last time it cost me €200 and i had no money for food or petrol for the rest of the month.

Its why i personally get angry about people taking advantage of free health care. and we were asked for our opinions on the matter of him sueing the NHS and thats what i put forward so dont understand the anger in the thread.

I'm not sure there has been any anger in any of the posts hun. A fair amount of strong opinion to be sure & maybe a bit of frustration maybe.

I do want to reiterate an earlier point though - this man is NOT suing the NHS - he is going to court to try & force the nhs to reconsider their decision & take into account factors which were not taken into account originally. It is entirely possible that the nhs trust could still come to the same decision if they are forced to reconsider. This is VERY different to suing the nhs.

 

[Maximus]

Afternoon There is a story on our local news about a man suing his NHS trust as they have turned him down for a gastric bypass , he is 22 stone , but only classed as obese .. not morbidly obese . He has been turned down for NHS surgery and is suing them , stating it is his human rite to have this surgery .

I just wondered what everyones thoughts on this were ?? I think it is totally inappropriate , the NHS did not mmake him obese .. he did that himself .... so why should it be his 'human rite ' to have an operation that costs approx £8000 when life saving operations and medications are rationed due to the huge NHS deficit . I sure hope he doesnt win or the NHS will soon be RIP :/

I actually agree with him!

It is his right to have this operation. It is also his right to pay for it out of his savings which he has a right to save up from his salary as he also has the right to work!

If it is so important to him, he can get his hand in his pocket

 

[Qua Sae]

I'm not sure there has been any anger in any of the posts hun. A fair amount of strong opinion to be sure & maybe a bit of frustration maybe.

I do want to reiterate an earlier point though - this man is NOT suing the NHS - he is going to court to try & force the nhs to reconsider their decision & take into account factors which were not taken into account originally. It is entirely possible that the nhs trust could still come to the same decision if they are forced to reconsider. This is VERY different to suing the nhs.

I'm not angry, just frustrated at the lack of empathy going around in here.

In regards to other posts: I don't think it's fair to assume that a) his weight gain is entirely his own fault & b) that he even has the funds to have such a surgery.. If he can't leave the house, how is he going to have a job, money etc?

:sigh:

While I understand that people have different opinions of the NHS, I don't think that just because it's provided 'free' we should be entirely happy with how it is run & who works within it!

As I mentioned, our mental health facilities are incredibly poor & to top it off, our local GP is just plain awful! Are we supposed to be grateful for this service just because it is free? Some of the things our GPs come out with..

 

[judywoody]

I guess this guy can't work because of his circumstances...

@littlestrawberry: When I said desperate I meant "being in a life threatening situation"... So that should be enough motivation, shouldn't it? With regards to his meds: Has the medication made him crave more food or did the medication itself make him put on weight? In the first case he can list this on his appeal and there might be a way to come off the meds and to look for an alternative - rather than opting for the most extreme solution. In the latter case again, surgery won't help him if a calorie restricted diet didn't work either.

A few years ago there was no such thing as WLS, and there was even a time where there was no NHS. Where I come from they wouldn't even remotely think about paying for that kind of surgery...So was it unfair that overweight people had to die in those days? We can't always say we have the RIGHT to do xyz just because we exist. Having health care is a PRIVILEGE which is only accessible to a tiny amount of people in the world. Overweight people in other parts of the world (eg South America..) just simply have to suffer the consequences of their life style. Sounds a bit heartless but that's the bitter truth. Or should they go to the court of human rights and appeal against the fact that life is unfair and that they were just born in the wrong country and therefor have the RIGHT to get certain treatments for free? Otherwise they will die?

You can tell me what you want - in 99.99% of the case, someone with a BMI over 40 usually sits at home shoveling down biscuits and a lot of them tell everyone that they don't understand why they can't lose weight. I know a guy (he is a postman, so he's doing a lot of exercise) and he loves his biscuits which seem to settle quit well on his belly. The other day he said he didn't want to have his dinner because he is trying to lose weight - turns around, grabs a few biscuits and a cup of tea and says "but these biscuits only have a few calories" ..yeah right...

I know that some meds can make you put on weight but it takes a lot more to reach a BMI over 40. And that's just a fact.

 

[kingleds]

I'm not angry, just frustrated at the lack of empathy going around in here.

In regards to other posts: I don't think it's fair to assume that a) his weight gain is entirely his own fault & b) that he even has the funds to have such a surgery.. If he can't leave the house, how is he going to have a job, money etc?

:sigh:

While I understand that people have different opinions of the NHS, I don't think that just because it's provided 'free' we should be entirely happy with how it is run & who works within it!

As I mentioned, our mental health facilities are incredibly poor & to top it off, our local GP is just plain awful! Are we supposed to be grateful for this service just because it is free? Some of the things our GPs come out with..

I agree that some nhs trusts are ridiculous, and some GP's are a joke (my OH's was so rude to him the other day i barely held my tongue).

I also share some of your frustrations with lack of empathy but i do understand it

The nhs is not free. It is free at the point of use - a very different thing. It is paid for by tax payers. Me, you (i'm assuming) alot of the other posters on here - that is what gives everyone a right to an opinion on this issue - because its our money that is being spent. Some of us think its okay to spend it on this man, other don't. No right or wrongs, just opinions.

 

[Shirleen]

I guess this guy can't work because of his circumstances...

@littlestrawberry: When I said desperate I meant "being in a life threatening situation"... So that should be enough motivation, shouldn't it? With regards to his meds: Has the medication made him crave more food or did the medication itself make him put on weight? In the first case he can list this on his appeal and there might be a way to come off the meds and to look for an alternative - rather than opting for the most extreme solution. In the latter case again, surgery won't help him if a calorie restricted diet didn't work either.

A few years ago there was no such thing as WLS, and there was even a time where there was no NHS. Where I come from they wouldn't even remotely think about paying for that kind of surgery...So was it unfair that overweight people had to die in those days? We can't always say we have the RIGHT to do xyz just because we exist. Having health care is a PRIVILEGE which is only accessible to a tiny amount of people in the world. Overweight people in other parts of the world (eg South America..) just simply have to suffer the consequences of their life style. Sounds a bit heartless but that's the bitter truth. Or should they go to the court of human rights and appeal against the fact that life is unfair and that they were just born in the wrong country and therefor have the RIGHT to get certain treatments for free? Otherwise they will die?

You can tell me what you want - in 99.99% of the case, someone with a BMI over 40 usually sits at home shoveling down biscuits and a lot of them tell everyone that they don't understand why they can't lose weight. I know a guy (he is a postman, so he's doing a lot of exercise) and he loves his biscuits which seem to settle quit well on his belly. The other day he said he didn't want to have his dinner because he is trying to lose weight - turns around, grabs a few biscuits and a cup of tea and says "but these biscuits only have a few calories" ..yeah right...

I know that some meds can make you put on weight but it takes a lot more to reach a BMI over 40. And that's just a fact.

Thanks for that rather ill informed opinion. I started my weight loss with a BMI of 44, I work bloody hard and hardly ever even eat biscuits thanks very much!
Before you make such statements please make sure you have done the study to back it up!

 

[judywoody]

Thanks for that rather ill informed opinion. I started my weight loss with a BMI of 44, I work bloody hard and hardly ever even eat biscuits thanks very much!
Before you make such statements please make sure you have done the study to back it up!

"Biscuits" was just a collective term for unhealthy/too much food.
And you are the best example that one CAN lose weight if you have a BMI over 40 if you work hard for it.

I am not saying that this guy will ever look like Hugh Jackman. Or ever even go below a BMI of 30. I started at a BMI of 36 and I know that I didn't gain weight because I was living of salads. But a BMI of 40 doesn't just appear over night.

 

[chiefbridesmaid]

OMW!!!

I never knew that!!
Do you have to pay into the social system though?? And how much would it cost to get private insurance??

That's unbelievable....considering that Ireland is so expensive anyway..do you pay less tax at least?

I have private health insurance which i pay €50 a month for, but id does not cover doctors visits, you do however if you send in your receipts get a reduction on your excess which is no help whatsoever!!
I dont pay less tax, Ireland is in bailout because of recession so we pay tax, PRSI (which used to cover a dentist check up once a year and eye test but they took that away from us) we also have to pay a government levy of 2 or 4% depending how much you earn. its tough, i actually came off the pill as i cant afford to go for check ups to get the perscription, and then pay €15 a month for the perscription. I also havnt had a smear test in 6 years as you have to pay for that aswell!!

anyway @kingleds thats cool, i just read the article.. very interesting to see the outcome of the appeal!!

 

[judywoody]

I have private health insurance which i pay €50 a month for, but id does not cover doctors visits, you do however if you send in your receipts get a reduction on your excess which is no help whatsoever!!
I dont pay less tax, Ireland is in bailout because of recession so we pay tax, PRSI (which used to cover a dentist check up once a year and eye test but they took that away from us) we also have to pay a government levy of 2 or 4% depending how much you earn. its tough, i actually came off the pill as i cant afford to go for check ups to get the perscription, and then pay €15 a month for the perscription. I also havnt had a smear test in 6 years as you have to pay for that aswell!!

anyway @kingleds thats cool, i just read the article.. very interesting to see the outcome of the appeal!!

oh dear - I am surprised that the 50Euro Health Insurance doesn't even cover the visit to your GP...what do you do in an emergency? Do they not treat you until you paid your 100 Euro A&E fee??

I become more and more grateful for the NHS...

 

[chiefbridesmaid]

oh dear - I am surprised that the 50Euro Health Insurance doesn't even cover the visit to your GP...what do you do in an emergency? Do they not treat you until you paid your 100 Euro A&E fee??

I become more and more grateful for the NHS...

oh they treat you.. but give you your bill on the way out!! makes me so mad! i fell in work a few years ago, thank god they covered the bills, the ambulance alone cost €75, then xrays, tests and vallium on top of that was a hefty bill!!

 

[Leapfrog]

oh they treat you.. but give you your bill on the way out!! makes me so mad! i fell in work a few years ago, thank god they covered the bills, the ambulance alone cost €75, then xrays, tests and vallium on top of that was a hefty bill!!

What you pay is the TRUE cost of treatment, as we do in France. I too have been too poor to go to the doctor, as was my friend who knew she had breast cancer but simply didn't have the money to pay up front and wait for reimbursement. Her treatment ran into thousands of Euros before it was accepted as a life threatening illness and treated for "free".

 

[chiefbridesmaid]

Omg that's terrible.. It's sad isn't it that your friend couldn't get the treatment she deserved immediately! It's shocking really and people who receive free health care should feel very lucky that they don't find themselves in that situation. Hope your friend is feeling better!

 

[Kitteh]

Gemmy i think you're my twin <3

as usual people are the judge and jury and make statements without even knowing the facts!!

I will NEVER slag off the NHS, without some of the doctors and consultants under them my son wouldn't be alive today. However i understand the frustration of this man and i truely hope he can find a way to become healthier. Another thing i will say, when people are like "well WW, sw, etc etc" what works for one person will not work for another. What some find an amazing diet, just won't do for others. Just because you feel fantastic and are losing weight and loving your diet, doesn't mean you can allocate it to someone you know nothing medically about, or even about him/his lifestyle.

Poor man, i hope he gets the care he needs.
xx

 

[LittleSausage]

I have to agree with Ermentrude here. Yes, suing the NHS may seem wrong to the majority, but the press will only report whatever makes a good story. My guess is we won't ever really know the whole story. It's very easy to blast the man, but we don't know what he's tried. In this day and age where convenience food is still so much cheaper than healthy stuff, is it any wonder people on low incomes will eat unhealthily? As for paying for it himself, I think that's a little harsh. My mum has been working for decades and still doesn't have two pennies to rub together.
It's very easy to pass judgement, especially when you have lost weight successfully. But we don't all have the same mindset, the same background and when we don't have the full story, I do think maybe passing judgement should be done more carefully.
I really hope I haven't offended anyone as that is not my MO. Just my tuppence, is all. X

 

[bilsat]

There have been several cases in the weekly mags about people who had a gastric bypass and it is'nt the be all and end all.
They have had problems due to what they do after the op, a high percentage took to increased drinking, others eat lots of unsuitable food and had problems, also complications from the op.

 

[Beverley8603]

I am sure someone is going to hate me for saying this but I do not believe convenience foods are cheaper than eating healthily!

Example - 1 baked potato filled with cheese or baked beans and some salad and/or veg has to be cheaper than shop bought ready food. That is just an example.

I just could not afford to feed us on convenience food.

We have never had takeaways as we could not afford them.

I just cannot see the logic in this convenience food argument.

 

[LittleSis]

This gent was on the early morning news...When the reporter was introducing the piece my hackles rose, like many on here I thought bleeping cheek just go on a diet but as the report explained, he has tried to lose the weight.He has also been approved by his Dr's for the op. It was they who put him forward for it!!

If this man had a lung condition caused by smoking or a liver condition caused by drinking, no one would bat an eye at him being given treatment but because it's weight related "it's his own fault". I have an under active thyroid for which I take 200mg of thyroxine daily. It helps me but it doesn't make the weight fall off. It's slow. Very slow.. None of us know what underling problems this man has... We shouldn't be so quick to judge without having all the facts.

There was also the head of baliatric surgery for the NHS in the studio. After they showed the report they asked him what he thought about it and was surgery cost effective.... He answered that it is and it saves the NHS thousands in the long run.....

This report was on BBC early morning news. If you go on to i-player you should be able to view the report.

 

[cottonsocks]

Hi.
Total newbie to the site - I found myself reading this thread after I googled about this man's case after seeing it in the news.

Firstly, I don't think the thread has any anger or massive argument in it, just good strong opinions which has made a great thread and debate.

I found myself wanting to join up to put forward my opinion on this matter (from someone who has been overweight for over 20 years and who has recently had a gastric bypass) as I was frustrated with the lack of information a lot of posters are basing their opinion on.
As others have mentioned, we don't know the full circumstances surrounding this man or his case.

Consider the following points:
1) *How has he put on the weight?
2) *What full set of health problems does he have?
3) *What has he tried so far?
4) *How long has he been overweight and trying to lose it?
5) *Could he afford surgery privately? (does he have the means for it?)
6) *What effects is it having on other family members?

Point 1.
I find it very shallow for some to think that most people with a BMI of over 40 just sit on their butt eating biscuits (or any junk food) all day! Shame on you for stereotyping!
There are many reasons why people put on weight: medication, health, depression etc. Also, if someone had just 200-300 extra cals a day - over 10 years- that would amount to a fair but of weight being put on. 200 cals could be in the form of 1.5 cans of coke, a creamy curry instead of tomato based or a chocolate bar. Just eating one thing containing the 'extra calories' will result in gaining weight so you get a slow but steady weight increase.
Lets not forget the times in ones life where a fast weight gain can happen - injury resulting in a period of inactivity, depression, pregnancy, medication, illness, etc.
I have had 4 children and each time I have put on weight - in early pregnancies, advice of "eat for 2" was given! I was young, knew no better and struggled to lose the weight fully afterwards.

Point 2.
He may have far more health problems than we know and lets not forget previous health problems that could come back.
The actual NICE (National Institute of Clinical Excellence) guidelines for weight loss surgery on the NHS is that for surgery, a BMI of 35 with co-morbidities (diabetes is one) OR a BMI of 40+ without any co-morbidities.
So he does 'qualify' in that respect but PCT's put their own qualifying criteria in place which is, unfortunately, the downside of the postcode lottery.

I had a BMI of 41 - I did not have any co-morbidities (luckily) but I know if I continued to gain weight that my luck would run out. Despite this, my doctor said I wouldn't stand a chance for funding on the NHS. I expected that and I was very lucky to be in the position where my husband could get a loan and pay for it.

Point 3.
He may have tried so many different diets, pills and other means to lose weight.
Ultimately, the blame is with society in the first place. Like someone said, it's not the case where someone suddenly wakes up obese - it happens over a long time.
It is mainly now that society is waking up to the growing obesity in adults and children. Schools and government are taking a more active part in monitoring overweight children and educating but it still isn't enough.
A lot of obese people were overweight as children - something that is mostly due to the parents. Most parents didn't realise what they were setting up their children for - a lifetime of bad eating habits.
20 or 30 years ago there was no government initiative for "eat 5 a day" and many overweight adults are a result of this 'unawareness' from years back. Even now, there needs to be much more education for parents and serious help and support for overweight people who need more than a "go to WW" talk.

I approached my Dr many years back when I reached 17 stone at one point. I was asking for help - I was in a vicious circle with overeating a depression, was even a member of a weight loss group but couldn't find a way to lose and successfully keep it off. Do you know what I was told by the Dr? ....."What you've got to do is eat less calories than what you burn for energy, then you'll lose weight. Try eating less". DERRRRR!!! Like I didn't know that already! LOL :copon:
There is so much more support for smokers, alcoholics and drug abusers and people accept that these are addictions yet some struggle to see that food can be an addiction too, only the difficulty is that we don't need alcohol, drugs or cigarettes to survive yet we need food so cannot abstain completely from the one thing that can bring so much difficulty into our lives.
After my visit to the Dr's, I continued to try and lose the weight myself but each time, I would lose, then gain it back again and more.
I lost 3 stone on one of these well known 500 cals a day diet. This brand also included weekly councelling/CBT as part of the journey but couldn't afford to pay the weekly amount of £60 to keep going. I put it all back on over time and amongst other things (diet groups, personal trainer etc) tried the 500 cals diet again where I lost 5 stone. (It was even more expensive then now).
Great to start with but I was putting weight back on with just eating a salad a day!! Eventually I put all my weight back on and more so that's when I decided enough was enough, no more yo yoing, I'm getting surgery.

Point 4.
Like I've said previously, he may have been overweight from childhood and may, like many others, have tried to seek help and advice for so long with no luck.
Intervention needs to be applied earlier, when someone first begins to be overweight, as if people are given help, advice and treatment earlier, then many wouldn't get to the way they are now.
I think we are on the way to doing this; educating in schools, trying to reach out to food companies to make clearer warnings on food labels, education on what fats are good/bad, processed food awareness etc etc but there is still more that could be done and for some it's too little too late.

Point 5.
I said I was lucky that my husband got a loan but
these days, with the economic climate, loans are harder to get and so for some of you saying "sell his house....re-mortgage....use his savings.... get a loan etc" He may not have any of this nor be in the position to get money. For some, NHS funding is their last hope.

Point 6.
The effect on his family could cost the NHS even more - any carer knows how hard it is so his wife could be suffering with depression as a result of it all, lifting an overweight person to toilet them could put her back out, resulting in life long injury...the possibilities are endless so I do think any decision should be looked at with inclusion of the 'greater picture' and circumstances.

On further points, VLC diet may not have worked for him (it didn't work for me as I lost then gained even more) but it is ridiculous for someone to say that because it didn't work, neither will the surgery as that is only what surgery does!

Gastric Band: reduces portion/food intake and therefore should reduce calorie intake.
Gastric Bypass: Reduces portion/food intake AND reduces calorie absorbtion (a section of the small intestine where calories are absorbed is bypassed - about 2m in my case).

He wants a Gastric bypass which not only physically restricts intake, it reduces absorbtion on calories too.

A VLC diet is not comparable with surgery as the restriction on VLC diets is purely by will power, the ability to be strict and be in control. Then there's the whole issue of reintroducing food. With surgery, you physically can't eat a lot of food or rush food as it will be very pain full and will come straight back up.
In the case of the Bypass surgery, most people can't eat sugary or fatty foods as this usually results in diarrhea or "dumping" which is where you get the shakes, palpitations, feel sick, get a massive headache and feel really poorly. This is enough to make anyone avoid these foods which is a good thing. For me and my eating habits, I knew a bypass was better suited to me and the surgeon agreed totally.

My BMI was 41, I was 17st 13lbs, didn't have any co-morbidities and I had a bypass. Why did I have surgery? Well, because I knew, from over 10 years of experience of trying to lose weight only to find myself even more heavier, I was going to get bigger and bigger. I already got breathless walking around the house and getting dressed, avoided going out as I felt too embarrassed, and my mentality towards myself was affecting my relationships and life. I had 4 children under the age of 13 to think about (one has autism so needs more care).
Should I risk getting bigger, developing co-morbidities, depression (again), worsening asthma and mobility to the point where I need a carer/meds/more long term medical intervention? Then I'll be claiming DLA, be unable to work so on other benefits, cause my husband to not work so he can care for me, have my children see me slowly destroy myself everyday as I can't find a way out because depression has set in and I'm on the road to distruction?
Did I want to get to the point where they will fund it when I'm twice as big as I was, and then after losing the weight have so much skin because it's stretched beyond means so needing surgery to remove it?
NO!

For this man, he hasn't got the funds to pay for it so he's fighting for it - I would too and I'm sure anyone would if they were desperate. It's human nature.
My surgery cost £9250. Yes, I do need calcium tabs for the rest of my life which I get on NHS (paying my £7.20 towards each monthly supply) and I need multi vits for ever but I buy those myslef. I have found, however that my asthma has become non existent to will probably no longer need meds for that and I'm sure calcium tabs are much cheaper than diabetes meds, high blood pressure meds or any other treatment that I could have needed if I continued to gain weight.

I was lucky but I've met a lot who are not and are fighting for NHS funding as it's their only chance. One lady, I met in a support group, actually needed Oxygen everyday as her lung illness is no so bad due to her weight, needs so much meds and care and yet is still fighting for funding as she has been refused. If she had lung disease, she would get treatment for sure but they are refusing to treat the cause of her lung problems because of postcode lottery!?!

To date, I have lost 4 1/2 stone, my skin is shrinking pretty good (I won't NEED it removed....yes, it may not look fab but I won't be kicking my belly flap with each step or getting ulcers), I am happier - I go out, my hubby sees me happy and my children see me happy therefore they are happy, I have started work again therefore paying into society (in fact I have started my own business as I have the confidence and energy to do it now) and I know that my life has changed direction and it is up to me, now I have to 'tool' for it, to keep going on the right path. I still have 4 stone to lose but I'll get there.

I'm sorry for this impossibly long post - if we were discussing this face to face it's wouldn't have taken half as long to get my points over. :giveup:
If you've lasting this long, I appreciate you taking the time to read my post (from the Point of view of someone who has had surgery).

I just wanted to inform a few posters who seem a little uninformed on the use of surgery and how it can help.

It is my opinion that he has the right to fight for surgery, just like we all have to right to fight in what we believe in - that's what makes our country great, and I hope for his and his families sake that he gets the help he needs.

Thanks a mill.
xx