Maintainer
** Chief WITCH **
Great pictures! (I bet your feet were dirty afterwards!!)
Consolidation Anjuschka's journey through Conso (closed)
- Thread starter anjuschka
- Start date
anjuschka
Dukan Ancestor!!
Phew that's todays PP done. I so wanted hot food at lunchtime, I was freezing again. I tend to warm up later after lunch, when the calories kick in I presume. I really must make some chicken / egg soup to take to work.
Came home to find the Veg delivery box not here :sigh: ... Rang the supplier to check but they had been and put the box in the usual place - I knew they had, as they had put their note through the door and taken back the empty boxes I put out. Hmm I'm really worried about this now. We've NEVER (yet) had a problem and we've been getting Veg for at least 8 years and wine for nearly as long I think (just not so regularly). They just leave it at the back of the house - the postie sometimes leaves packages too - even though they're not supposed to - it's been perfectly safe. Maybe not any more :-( The thought really bothers me! At least the supplier are not charging us for this one
- and lucky it was not last week, that had 1lb of venison in it...
And now of course I have to go fruit & veg shopping...!
Came home to find the Veg delivery box not here :sigh: ... Rang the supplier to check but they had been and put the box in the usual place - I knew they had, as they had put their note through the door and taken back the empty boxes I put out. Hmm I'm really worried about this now. We've NEVER (yet) had a problem and we've been getting Veg for at least 8 years and wine for nearly as long I think (just not so regularly). They just leave it at the back of the house - the postie sometimes leaves packages too - even though they're not supposed to - it's been perfectly safe. Maybe not any more :-( The thought really bothers me! At least the supplier are not charging us for this one
- and lucky it was not last week, that had 1lb of venison in it...And now of course I have to go fruit & veg shopping...
!
anjuschka
Dukan Ancestor!!
Another week, another STS
So phew - I managed another STS despite two Gala meals. Now with 3 months into Conso and one month (and Christmas) to go, I am contemplating what comes next. I have not yet had time to open the book but I found a French summary of all the rules I downloaded a long time ago (JO: it's a mise a jour from Dukan.et.nous) and for Maintenance it says (badly translated by me! and my comments in green)
=== B n 4 ==
Stabilisation :
You eat normally whilst following two principles:
Thursday PP for life
3 TB oatbran per day
You will remain on this diet for the rest of your life, but this time you will have learnt to use the tools at your disposal to deal with every slip-up.
Keep to the Dukan eating habits, the portions of carbs and bread that you started having in Conso.
SO I AM NOT GOING BACK TO NORMAL, REALLY (while 200gr pasta is a LOT more than I would normally have at a meal, 1 slice of bread a day is not enough...)
Avoid, but don't cut out
fatty meats (pork, duck, lamb), cold meats, ready meals, heavy (in sugar and/or fat) cakes and patisserie. This should not stop you from having the occasional treat though. Watch your fat intake.
No more pate? Salami? Parma ham? except on special occasions? I can't live on ham sandwiches for life... Cheese?
And when you think you've overdone it, you can have the odd 2 days of PP instead of just doing one.
Oh instructions for a jojo diet! 5 day off and 2 days on...
Weigh yourself once a week to check your progress.
I guess from that point forward you switch to healthy eating which is really what these instructions describe, I should not be so flippant. We must learn to have one occasional biscuit not three and one sandwich not two...
========================
I must look at the book though, whether he advises only to have one carb meal a day. At some point I need to have something different than dukan porridge or bread for breakfast... andone slice of normal bread will not last me till lunch... Ah well I'll cross that bridge when I get to it!
Anyway, enough future-gazing, stick with the present and what I know.
I've been doing a lot of walking this week - DH had my bike as his broke and I've got the shorter way to work.
So phew - I managed another STS despite two Gala meals. Now with 3 months into Conso and one month (and Christmas) to go, I am contemplating what comes next. I have not yet had time to open the book but I found a French summary of all the rules I downloaded a long time ago (JO: it's a mise a jour from Dukan.et.nous) and for Maintenance it says (badly translated by me! and my comments in green)
=== B n 4 ==
Stabilisation :
You eat normally whilst following two principles:
Thursday PP for life
3 TB oatbran per day
You will remain on this diet for the rest of your life, but this time you will have learnt to use the tools at your disposal to deal with every slip-up.
Keep to the Dukan eating habits, the portions of carbs and bread that you started having in Conso.
SO I AM NOT GOING BACK TO NORMAL, REALLY (while 200gr pasta is a LOT more than I would normally have at a meal, 1 slice of bread a day is not enough...)
Avoid, but don't cut out
fatty meats (pork, duck, lamb), cold meats, ready meals, heavy (in sugar and/or fat) cakes and patisserie. This should not stop you from having the occasional treat though. Watch your fat intake.
No more pate? Salami? Parma ham? except on special occasions? I can't live on ham sandwiches for life... Cheese?
And when you think you've overdone it, you can have the odd 2 days of PP instead of just doing one.
Oh instructions for a jojo diet! 5 day off and 2 days on...
Weigh yourself once a week to check your progress.
I guess from that point forward you switch to healthy eating which is really what these instructions describe, I should not be so flippant. We must learn to have one occasional biscuit not three and one sandwich not two...
========================
I must look at the book though, whether he advises only to have one carb meal a day. At some point I need to have something different than dukan porridge or bread for breakfast... andone slice of normal bread will not last me till lunch... Ah well I'll cross that bridge when I get to it!
Anyway, enough future-gazing, stick with the present and what I know.
I've been doing a lot of walking this week - DH had my bike as his broke and I've got the shorter way to work.
Maintainer
** Chief WITCH **
I meant to comment on your stolen veg box (which I read at 6am and didn't have my wits about me to hit "reply"!). That is HORRID. In your place, I'd (try to) tell myself that it must have been a total stranger in the area who just happened upon the delivery, and saw the guy putting it round the back of your house, and took advantage. Perhaps if it's a regular delivery, have them change day/time or something in case the timing's been picked up. As you say, though, most disconcerting...
For Stabilisation, we all agreed (at the time, way back when) that he really didn't give us any help in that respect in the book... When coached, I had the chance (he doesn't mention THIS when you sign up) of signing up for €1 a week for a stabilisation period... (in addition to the initial cost). I didn't bother.
On a French site I was using at the time, some of the ladies were very "up" on nutrition and we muddled through.
This is a huge site, where I'm sure you'll find some stabilisation help Anja... "Anmumu", one of the Modos, is doing really well and is a mine of information and very nice lady too.
http://dukan.et.nous.xooit.com/f117-La-Stabilisation.htm
For Stabilisation, we all agreed (at the time, way back when) that he really didn't give us any help in that respect in the book... When coached, I had the chance (he doesn't mention THIS when you sign up) of signing up for €1 a week for a stabilisation period... (in addition to the initial cost). I didn't bother.
On a French site I was using at the time, some of the ladies were very "up" on nutrition and we muddled through.
This is a huge site, where I'm sure you'll find some stabilisation help Anja... "Anmumu", one of the Modos, is doing really well and is a mine of information and very nice lady too.
http://dukan.et.nous.xooit.com/f117-La-Stabilisation.htm
Going back to normal was never going to be was it, thats what got us all here.
But having more carbs at breakfast and less with your main meal seems the right sort of arrangement, for you.
No idea what occassional means when it comes to fattier meats and cakes (and cheese), monthly, weekly, I dont know.
All the best, hope it goes well and you find a good balance.
On the veg box, awful thing to happen, wonder if there are people on the look out for xmas parcels to steal
But having more carbs at breakfast and less with your main meal seems the right sort of arrangement, for you.
No idea what occassional means when it comes to fattier meats and cakes (and cheese), monthly, weekly, I dont know.
All the best, hope it goes well and you find a good balance.
On the veg box, awful thing to happen, wonder if there are people on the look out for xmas parcels to steal
anjuschka
Dukan Ancestor!!
Thanks Jo and jaqys!
Yes I do hope that it was an opportunist, he must have seen the big yellow Van which says Abel & Cole on the side (suppose it doesn't say 'vegetables'). I mean all my neighbours know when they come and we're a reasonably busy road... In any case I'm now arranging to get a key to them so they can leave the boxes in the shed. Much better in winter anyhow and we can review in the summer (when the shed gets too hot!).
We'll see what happens next Thursday (too soon to have sorted the key handover), and also later when the next wine box turns up (different supplier).
A&C can't really vary their round as they come from further afield and do the Cambridge area on Thursdays only.
And yes what happens for Stab, I just felt outraged when I read the nitty gritty in the summary and had to get it off my chest, as I was having a bad day anyway! Presumably, as I actually had a fairly stable lifestyle as far as weight was concerned (it was 14kg too much but not rising), so I should be okay going back to that with care.... Of course I weigh less now so will need/use less calories...
And in Jan I'll be far too preoccupied to get the post-Christmas weight off to even think about Stab...
And ahem, the season *is* starting :xmascheers: I went out to an event tonight and had a glass of mulled wine and a gingerbread biscuit....
Yes I do hope that it was an opportunist, he must have seen the big yellow Van which says Abel & Cole on the side (suppose it doesn't say 'vegetables'). I mean all my neighbours know when they come and we're a reasonably busy road... In any case I'm now arranging to get a key to them so they can leave the boxes in the shed. Much better in winter anyhow and we can review in the summer (when the shed gets too hot!).
We'll see what happens next Thursday (too soon to have sorted the key handover), and also later when the next wine box turns up (different supplier).
A&C can't really vary their round as they come from further afield and do the Cambridge area on Thursdays only.
And yes what happens for Stab, I just felt outraged when I read the nitty gritty in the summary and had to get it off my chest, as I was having a bad day anyway
! Presumably, as I actually had a fairly stable lifestyle as far as weight was concerned (it was 14kg too much but not rising), so I should be okay going back to that with care.... Of course I weigh less now so will need/use less calories...And in Jan I'll be far too preoccupied to get the post-Christmas weight off to even think about Stab...
And ahem, the season *is* starting :xmascheers: I went out to an event tonight and had a glass of mulled wine and a gingerbread biscuit
....
anjuschka
Dukan Ancestor!!
Oh and forgot to say DH is getting me a new Camera for Christmas! This is the one I chose in the end:
Nikon S8000 Digital Camera - Black 3 inch LCD: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics
Nikon S8000 Digital Camera - Black 3 inch LCD: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics
kidsmademefat
Full Member
I love the belly dancing pics anja, looks like fun. Thats terrible having your veges stolen, i hope it was a one off for you.
I think by the time i get to stabilization i would have done consolidation for so long that healthy eating will just come naturally to me and there is no way i would want to put the weight back on and go thru all that again lol. Even now when we eat out i usually order a salad, even when i was doing conso and having a celebration meal. I never order a starter and very rarely have a desert (i would rather have a couple of drinks )
So wishing i had spaghetti bolognaise
I think by the time i get to stabilization i would have done consolidation for so long that healthy eating will just come naturally to me and there is no way i would want to put the weight back on and go thru all that again lol. Even now when we eat out i usually order a salad, even when i was doing conso and having a celebration meal. I never order a starter and very rarely have a desert (i would rather have a couple of drinks
)So wishing i had spaghetti bolognaise
anjuschka
Dukan Ancestor!!
thanks Sue, yes it was / is fun and very good for your too. Develops you legs and general flexibility. Did a bit for my self-confidence too
Anyway - back to my weekend... Another winter - baking - etc weekend
Sat: Great start and snack avoidance, but a bit lax evening - Gala meal with dessert and biscuits&cheese:
B: egg-only pancake with cottage cheese and cinnamon apple
S: oatbran muffins
L: Egg& Ham, cottage cheese, tomato
S: oatbran muffins. A chocolate crispy cake made by DD2 when I was out for choir rehearsal...
D (gala): Pizza, 2 plain crackers with butter, apple strudel.
Later: 5 chocolate fingers
Sunday: Again great start, but a blip in the middle...
B: bread with ham & quark, yoghurt
S: Oatbran muffins with (dried) apricots
L: Chilli soup which did have some beans in it. Yoghurt
S: 4 Home made biscuits (we'd been baking them), one small chocolate lebkuchen heart
D: Lobster (cheapo tiny one from LIDL) and Crayfish in a dukan-friendly wine sauce with mushroom and peppers. Small glass of wine.
S (for later): Oatbran muffins
So I think I'll have to reclassify today as PV+Carbs, and re-jig the rest of the week... At least yesterday was very active with lots of cycling to and fro, but today was just running up and down the stairs whilst tidying up.
From a diet point of view it would be best if I had no family and was at work every day
Anyway - back to my weekend... Another winter - baking - etc weekend
Sat: Great start and snack avoidance, but a bit lax evening - Gala meal with dessert and biscuits&cheese:
B: egg-only pancake with cottage cheese and cinnamon apple
S: oatbran muffins
L: Egg& Ham, cottage cheese, tomato
S: oatbran muffins. A chocolate crispy cake made by DD2 when I was out for choir rehearsal...
D (gala): Pizza, 2 plain crackers with butter, apple strudel.
Later: 5 chocolate fingers
Sunday: Again great start, but a blip in the middle...
B: bread with ham & quark, yoghurt
S: Oatbran muffins with (dried) apricots
L: Chilli soup which did have some beans in it. Yoghurt
S: 4 Home made biscuits (we'd been baking them), one small chocolate lebkuchen heart
D: Lobster (cheapo tiny one from LIDL) and Crayfish in a dukan-friendly wine sauce with mushroom and peppers. Small glass of wine.
S (for later): Oatbran muffins
So I think I'll have to reclassify today as PV+Carbs, and re-jig the rest of the week... At least yesterday was very active with lots of cycling to and fro, but today was just running up and down the stairs whilst tidying up.
From a diet point of view it would be best if I had no family and was at work every day
dukandebut
Goat herder(ess)
How awful about your veg box being stolen, Anja. I agree that it probably was an opportunist, but a horrible feeling, nonetheless.
Since I've only got another 5lbs to lose, I've begun reading the Conso and Stabilisation parts of the book. Here's the Stabilisation summary:-
1. Go back to eating what you want six days out of seven, while keeping the consolidation foods as your safety base and platform.
2. Hold on to everything you have learnt and the good habits you have acquired while completing the whole programme.
3. Enshrine protein Thursdays as the day that protects you for the rest of your life.
4. Live your life as if lifts and escalators did not exist.
5. Also, take three tablespoons of oat bran every day for the rest of your life.
I interpret the first 2 points to mean that you are freer to eat what you want on Stabilisation, but to be sensible and not to abuse it. That you should remember to eat plenty of good protein and veg as the basis of your meals and keep a check on fat, carbs and sugar - you can eat them, but in strict moderation. (I would think this would include cutting fat and skin off meat, restrict adding oils or fat for cooking to as little as possible, smaller portions of carbs than before the diet and only an occasional sugary treat.
Of course, I may be wrong. It does all seem a little ambiguous, to say the least!
Since I've only got another 5lbs to lose, I've begun reading the Conso and Stabilisation parts of the book. Here's the Stabilisation summary:-
1. Go back to eating what you want six days out of seven, while keeping the consolidation foods as your safety base and platform.
2. Hold on to everything you have learnt and the good habits you have acquired while completing the whole programme.
3. Enshrine protein Thursdays as the day that protects you for the rest of your life.
4. Live your life as if lifts and escalators did not exist.
5. Also, take three tablespoons of oat bran every day for the rest of your life.
I interpret the first 2 points to mean that you are freer to eat what you want on Stabilisation, but to be sensible and not to abuse it. That you should remember to eat plenty of good protein and veg as the basis of your meals and keep a check on fat, carbs and sugar - you can eat them, but in strict moderation. (I would think this would include cutting fat and skin off meat, restrict adding oils or fat for cooking to as little as possible, smaller portions of carbs than before the diet and only an occasional sugary treat.
Of course, I may be wrong. It does all seem a little ambiguous, to say the least!
anjuschka
Dukan Ancestor!!
Thanks DD - yes that's vaguely what I recalled (still not had a chance to open the book) I think going back to 'normal' should be fine, as long as I can keep my evening snacks under control (like tonight), and build in a post-weekend balancing measure... Because eating what I want is not going to keep me stabilized! I KNOW what I should eat but that doesn't stop me from wanting a n-th biscuit!
The whole thing's not helped by DH who normally eats his way through a packed of biscuits in an evening, at the moment he can get away with it, he's an archaeologist and outside in this weather he needs the calories. That's not to say that he doesn't need to lose some weight himself...
The whole thing's not helped by DH who normally eats his way through a packed of biscuits in an evening, at the moment he can get away with it, he's an archaeologist and outside in this weather he needs the calories. That's not to say that he doesn't need to lose some weight himself...
anjuschka
Dukan Ancestor!!
A successful Monday
Hi all,
after that weekend, I am pleased with my revitalized willpower today. I actually stepped on the scales to find out the truth and was 1kg up on Friday. I had never weighed on a Monday in Conso yet. I guess that's what you're going to see every week in Conso after a Gala meal etc, and that's why it's sensible to weigh only once a week. But this time it's given me the push back on track I needed, which is why I did it.
B: D porridge, yoghurt, apple
L: Smoked salmon, cottage cheese 'sauce' with mustard, egg, turkey (we're a bit short on veg at the moment...), yoghurt
S: a few crumbs of home made biscuits
D: dukan-friendly chicken curry with carrots and onions, a small (60g) piece of Naan bread. SF jelly.
S: egg custard
And that was really it. I did not take a snack for after swimming and did not need anything either, while DD2 munched her way through half a banana, a small ham sandwich, a yoghurt and a small chocolate bar she had just received as it was the last lesson before X-M ! I did not even pick at her leftovers. Just realised I forgot the cheese ration.
The home-made biscuits I referred to: one of my tins of home made biscuits fell off the shelf on Sunday - it now contains perfect crumbs (must find a recipe to use them), not one stayed whole and most were reduced to small crumbs, the results were really amazing. I now let the girls pick out the larger pieces while I need to bake another batch - they were supposed to be for giving away as pressies!
Cycled to choir and back in freezing fog. Not nice but good for you no doubt
Anyway TIME FOR BED! Have a good day tomorrow everyone!
Hi all,
after that weekend, I am pleased with my revitalized willpower today. I actually stepped on the scales to find out the truth and was 1kg up on Friday. I had never weighed on a Monday in Conso yet. I guess that's what you're going to see every week in Conso after a Gala meal etc, and that's why it's sensible to weigh only once a week. But this time it's given me the push back on track I needed, which is why I did it.
B: D porridge, yoghurt, apple
L: Smoked salmon, cottage cheese 'sauce' with mustard, egg, turkey (we're a bit short on veg at the moment...), yoghurt
S: a few crumbs of home made biscuits
D: dukan-friendly chicken curry with carrots and onions, a small (60g) piece of Naan bread. SF jelly.
S: egg custard
And that was really it. I did not take a snack for after swimming and did not need anything either, while DD2 munched her way through half a banana, a small ham sandwich, a yoghurt and a small chocolate bar she had just received as it was the last lesson before X-M ! I did not even pick at her leftovers. Just realised I forgot the cheese ration
.The home-made biscuits I referred to: one of my tins of home made biscuits fell off the shelf on Sunday - it now contains perfect crumbs (must find a recipe to use them), not one stayed whole and most were reduced to small crumbs, the results were really amazing. I now let the girls pick out the larger pieces while I need to bake another batch - they were supposed to be for giving away as pressies!
Cycled to choir and back in freezing fog. Not nice but good for you no doubt
Anyway TIME FOR BED! Have a good day tomorrow everyone!
dukandebut
Goat herder(ess)
You've just summed me up exactly, Anja. I can't go back to eating what I want either, and it's those little snacks that do the damage. The rest of the time, I can eat pretty sensibly. But it all adds up, unfortunately. I think the important thing to remember is that we CAN have our little treats - only they need to be occasional and not in large helpings. If we make the most out of enjoying them, but bear in mind the damage that they can do if things get out of control, I reckon we can summon up the willpower to keep things in check.
My hubby may not be an archaeologist, but he can eat mountains of food and hardly ever puts on weight. Men seem to be able to get away with much more than we can. So unfair!
Sorry to hear about your biscuits. On the bright side, at least you now have plenty of Dukan-friendly-sized snacks!
anjuschka
Dukan Ancestor!!
Thanks Jaqys - the biscuit crush I think is going to make crumble topping at the weekend... If there is any left, that is!!
I have a busy Saturday coming up with haircut in the morning (got the last available appt first thing...), then to the concert hall to organise and help put up the staging, then last rehearsal with orchestra and soloists, then an hour or two hanging around (and me writing 50 cheques to pay orchestra etc), eat something, then BIG CONCERT.
Now I have to decide - do I make that day a gala day for lunch so I can have a nice pre-concert meal, or should I stick with a PV day so I can have a nice recovery day with the family on Sunday? I think the latter is probably better - I'll just have to pack a huge packed lunch & dinner Dukan style, and can't accept any treats in the break - someone always brings something for sharing...
Anyone in the Cambridge region - come to an outstanding concert of interesting coral music that's rarely performed!
Six settings of the "Te Deum" December West Road Concert Hall
I have a busy Saturday coming up with haircut in the morning (got the last available appt first thing...), then to the concert hall to organise and help put up the staging, then last rehearsal with orchestra and soloists, then an hour or two hanging around (and me writing 50 cheques to pay orchestra etc), eat something, then BIG CONCERT.
Now I have to decide - do I make that day a gala day for lunch so I can have a nice pre-concert meal, or should I stick with a PV day so I can have a nice recovery day with the family on Sunday? I think the latter is probably better - I'll just have to pack a huge packed lunch & dinner Dukan style, and can't accept any treats in the break - someone always brings something for sharing...
Anyone in the Cambridge region - come to an outstanding concert of interesting coral music that's rarely performed!
Six settings of the "Te Deum" December West Road Concert Hall
anjuschka
Dukan Ancestor!!
Today:
B: bread with cheese&turkey, stewed apple with yoghurt
S: oatbran muffins with Lebkuchen spices (tasty but not super-successful, missing the 'honey/molasses' flavour)
L: smoked salmon, egg, cucumber, small portion beef stew. yoghurt
D: 2 poultry Sausages & roasted Parsnips (everyone else is having sausages & mash & parsnips), baked custard.
This afternoon: invitation to and-of-term Christmas event for DD1s after-school club. Maybe I can get away with just having a cup of tea! I should have some muffins left as emergency backup too.
B: bread with cheese&turkey, stewed apple with yoghurt
S: oatbran muffins with Lebkuchen spices (tasty but not super-successful, missing the 'honey/molasses' flavour)
L: smoked salmon, egg, cucumber, small portion beef stew. yoghurt
D: 2 poultry Sausages & roasted Parsnips (everyone else is having sausages & mash & parsnips), baked custard.
This afternoon: invitation to and-of-term Christmas event for DD1s after-school club. Maybe I can get away with just having a cup of tea! I should have some muffins left as emergency backup too.
anjuschka
Dukan Ancestor!!
So, that was not too bad:
I did have most of a mince pie (DD2 ate a lot of the pastry), but that was it. No problem and no guilt about the one I ate!
This evening another batch of baking - two trays of 'cinnamon stars'. And I only tasted one little one to check they were really done. The rest are cooling still (see pic). I also attach a pic of the black& white biscuits we made at the weekend. Now I just have to replace the ones I broke and then I can wrap them all up for giving away! Of course we'll keep some too.
I did have most of a mince pie (DD2 ate a lot of the pastry), but that was it. No problem and no guilt about the one I ate!
This evening another batch of baking - two trays of 'cinnamon stars'. And I only tasted one little one to check they were really done. The rest are cooling still (see pic). I also attach a pic of the black& white biscuits we made at the weekend. Now I just have to replace the ones I broke and then I can wrap them all up for giving away! Of course we'll keep some too.
Attachments
anjuschka
Dukan Ancestor!!
thanks DD, I think I can get there most of the time. It's just that at the moment I'm kind of in this limbo state where I'm allowed A LITTLE and the more I try not to have any extra, the harder it gets not to slip up... I can follow rules, the problem starts when they need relaxing (ie I was still losing weight in Conso, so had to add extras) that I then take that as an excuse for too much laxity...
Yes but he pays for it in the times when he's back in the office writing up the results. He then gets a lot less exercise, but still munches the biscuits...
dukandebut
Goat herder(ess)
Oh yes, I know all about that - the one chocolate or biscuit that somehow turns into eating the whole box! I'm better with following strict rules as my willpower is pretty infallible then. It's definitely when the rules are relaxed that danger rears its calorific head.
I guess it's just a question of trying to re-educate ourselves and always keeping in mind the hard work we've been through to get to our target. If we can just get into the habit of taking only one chocolate or biscuit instead.
On the biscuit front - as they seem to be a weakness (I know I wont be able to go back to having them as its only me at home) could you divide what you buy so you put Anjas weekly allowance into one tin and the rest of the packet into another for everyone else, to stop yourself having more than 1 or 2.
