KD Rambles No. 2 Food addiction and peptides

[KD]

Ah, but then the purist would say that doing the diet caused untold damage. In fact many will blame the diet for all of your weight issues. It makes you crave all these forbidden foods for a start. Well, I sort of go along with that to a certain extent, but not entirely.

If the diet was to blame for us putting on weight, then why on earth do we ever have to diet in the first place? If we’ve never dieted, and dieting was the cause of our eating disorders, then surely we would have stayed slim

I know my eating disorder started before my first diet.

They will say that because you have been denied the illegal foods (generally unhealthy foods), you will crave them more. But most of the diets I did allow the illegal foods that IEers claim they weren’t allowed. WW, SW, calorie counting. The foods were always allowed. In fact we were often encouraged to enjoy everything and a little of what you fancy.

Many of the diets allowed me to eat all my days worth in these illegal foods if I wished….and I did Didn’t seem to stop me wanting them though when the diet finished.

I think too much don't I

 

[minilady]

Hi KD

Been reading again with interest Haven't posted much as I'd completely forgotten how my AD's don't just apply to food, they apply to alcohol too, have been resting since my Friday night out with the girls

The eating when hungry, I just can't get to grips with. I find that if I don't have breakfast, then this leads to overeating later in the day and evening. I prepare my breakfast on the whole not feeling particularly hungry, but when I start to eat it, I realise I was hungry and I enjoy it. I feel for me personally I have to have meals at the 'normal' times, or else I'm in for a very uncomfortable evening avoiding the fridge. Do you think it's to do with the energy release, if we have food at regular intervals, the energy is released slowly all day, keeping our bodies satisfied. If we eat only when hungry, we could leave huge gaps between food and then the body will use up all the energy and go into starvation mode again, and then lead to overeating later

The diets don't work for anyone When I read this in BC, it made me question the writers theories even more! I felt that my acheivements had been undermined. My diet did work for me, I wasn't ready at that time to face anything to do with why I overate, I solely consentrated on getting rid of the fat, it was only as I came to the end of my diet, that I began to think about the reasons I had always been overweight, and then how to do something about it.

Hope your having a great weekend It's pouring down here and hubby isn't speaking to me much, as I rolled in very late on Friday/Saturday morning:sigh: I had a great time though

Tracey
x

 

[KD]

Hi KD
Been reading again with interest Haven't posted much as I'd completely forgotten how my AD's don't just apply to food, they apply to alcohol too, have been resting since my Friday night out with the girls

Resting eh? You don't have days off this ya know

I feel for me personally I have to have meals at the 'normal' times, or else I'm in for a very uncomfortable evening avoiding the fridge.

That's it. It's finding what suits you. Sometimes I wait until I'm hungry, sometimes I don't. It all depends. What I want is choice. I generally eat at mealtimes, whether I'm hungry or not. I guess the difference with me now is that I'm not scared of being hungry. It doesn't rule my day anymore.

Before, if I needed to go out for a couple of hours and it was nearly lunch. I would panic. Shoud I grab something quick now, or should I try and find something while I was out. So terrified of getting hungry.

But now, if it's only going to be a couple of hours, I'll leave it. It's not as bad as I thought it was Not sure what I thought I would happen if I actually got hungry. Now it's good, but it doesn't happen often, because I don't want to wait until that point.

Do you think it's to do with the energy release, if we have food at regular intervals, the energy is released slowly all day, keeping our bodies satisfied.

Yes I think so. If I leave it too late nothing seems to fill that gap. I want to pick for the rest of the day.

The diets don't work for anyone When I read this in BC, it made me question the writers theories even more! I felt that my acheivements had been undermined.

Me too! I also feel patronised by those that believe it. As if I'd done something really stupid. Didn't know any better and all that. Thing is, I knew exactly what I was doing. I had tried non-dieting before and put on 6 stone. I thought it through. Well...I would, wouldn't I

Hope your having a great weekend

So far so good Saw the Red Arrows do a display over the pier on Friday. We watch it every year, knowing that it won't be long before it's stopped as Health and Safety deem that it's unsafe for people to look into the sky

Just got back from the park. Had a lovely long walk with DH and DS2. Okay, DS2 doesn't 'do' walking. He has to flip, somersault, cartwheel everywhere Twas good though. Had a conversation with the ducks, walked for about 2 hours and stopped at the cafe at the end.

Had a cappucino and got my carrot cake this time Yes, it was yum, but more importantly I could really relax knowing that I was in control, and it wasn't a slippery slope.

Now I'm home, it's dinner time. Since we all ate the cafe, dinner has been delayed. Now I wouldn't have done that in the past! Dinner was at 6:00pm regardless of what we had eaten.

 

[minilady]

Resting eh? You don't have days off this ya know

Had a little relapse, but not feeling guilty about it. I didn't binge as such, just ate what I fancied, which was enough


But now, if it's only going to be a couple of hours, I'll leave it. It's not as bad as I thought it was Not sure what I thought I would happen if I actually got hungry. Now it's good, but it doesn't happen often, because I don't want to wait until that point.

Yes I think so. If I leave it too late nothing seems to fill that gap. I want to pick for the rest of the day.

That's how I get. I have to have breakfast first thing, then lunch is normally at lunchtime. I do find I can wait to eat in the evening, I try to have dinner ready for about 6.30, mainly as I still have a couple of children that are still young, they go to bed quite early so a late tea isn't ideal for them. Sometimes I prepare dinner then reheat mine later if I'm not hungry.

Me too! I also feel patronised by those that believe it. As if I'd done something really stupid. Didn't know any better and all that. Thing is, I knew exactly what I was doing. I had tried non-dieting before and put on 6 stone. I thought it through. Well...I would, wouldn't I

Yup

So far so good Saw the Red Arrows do a display over the pier on Friday. We watch it every year, knowing that it won't be long before it's stopped as Health and Safety deem that it's unsafe for people to look into the sky

Just got back from the park. Had a lovely long walk with DH and DS2. Okay, DS2 doesn't 'do' walking. He has to flip, somersault, cartwheel everywhere Twas good though. Had a conversation with the ducks, walked for about 2 hours and stopped at the cafe at the end.

Had a cappucino and got my carrot cake this time Yes, it was yum, but more importantly I could really relax knowing that I was in control, and it wasn't a slippery slope.

That's the important thing isn't it, feeling in control. I do most of the time now, but obviously still have my out of control moments. However I now believe that I can maintain the control on the whole, and knowing this makes every day a little easier.

Now I'm home, it's dinner time. Since we all ate the cafe, dinner has been delayed. Now I wouldn't have done that in the past! Dinner was at 6:00pm regardless of what we had eaten.

Glad you've had a nice weekend, and that the carrot cake was good
I had some tiramasu icecream yesterday, it was heavenly. I didn't feel guilty as I listened to what my body needed and it was definately calling out for tiramasu

Tracey
x

 

[JustJo]

Hi there, Karion. I've just discovered this thread, so have read the whole of it with great interest. Some random (entirely unrelated to each other) points that have come to mind:

1) The AD thing sounds fab, and very useful. However, I really don't understand it! Maybe i'm being thick, maybe I should've read it twice, or maybe I should have clicked on the link detailing the beginning of the discussion (couldn't be bothered ), but I don't quite get it. Some layperson bullet points outlining the theory would be helpful.

2) I'm like you with having a problem believing in stuff that insists that I need to believe in all of it. That's why i've never quite managed to believe in God, despite giving church-going a whirl, and attending an Alpha course in the past. I'd like to believe it, but some of it just can't be right, which leads me to think that none of it can be...

3) Having breakfast definitely starts my hunger rolling. As does eating lunch. I can happily go all day until mid/late afternoon without food, without becoming particularly hungry. Whenever i've eaten breakfast (staying in B&Bs, for instance), I really haven't wanted it until i've started eating, but then just keep getting hungry throughout the day. Not eating until teatime does sometimes lead to me constantly wanting food in the evening, but then that's no different when I do eat breakfast. Actually, I think simply eating full-stop starts off my hunger and makes me want to eat more - perhaps I should just stop eating entirely.

4)

Before, if I needed to go out for a couple of hours and it was nearly lunch. I would panic. Shoud I grab something quick now, or should I try and find something while I was out. So terrified of getting hungry.

But now, if it's only going to be a couple of hours, I'll leave it. It's not as bad as I thought it was Not sure what I thought I would happen if I actually got hungry. Now it's good, but it doesn't happen often, because I don't want to wait until that point.

That's an invaluable lesson that doing Cambridge has taught me. I too was always terrified of getting hungry, but, you know what? I've now realised that being hungry won't actually kill me! Today, for instance, I took my son into town (saw Transformers at the flicks yesterday, so he was desparate to quickly spend his savings on Transformers toys ) shopping. I made he and my fella lunch before going, but wasn't hungry so didn't have anything myself (hadn't eaten brekkie or anything else, either). So, we're in town and it's coming up to 3pm, and I start to feel hungry and remember that I haven't eaten yet. We then popped to Morrisons on our way home, as my fella wanted beer rolleyes and we needed a few other bits, and got home at just gone 4pm. I was fairly hungry by now, but was swayed by the time (this is where your IE should've come into play, I guess) - i'd be making dinner within the space of two hours, so there would be no point in eating now, would there? Besides, as i've said, i've realised that being hungry isn't the end of the world - it's not like i'm starving to death. So, I came on the computer for a while (fella playing on new XBox game, son playing with new Transformers) and, before I knew it, the two of them were saying they were hungry and when would dinner be?! I'd actually kinda forgotten all about it by now! So, I finally ate for the first time today at about 7pm. I'm still alive, I haven't chewed my arm off, and I haven't (yet) eaten anything else. I have a low-fat natural yoghurt and berries sitting waiting for me in the fridge, but i'm not bothered at the moment.
Anyway, i'm rambling far too much - I initially meant to stop at 'being hungry won't kill you'! I know what they say about the metabolism not kicking in without breakfast, blah, blah, blah, but I also know what works for me.

It's good to see you posting your ponderings and words of wisdom again, Karion. You're right though - you do think too much.


Jo x

 

[KD]

Some layperson bullet points outlining the theory would be helpful.

OMG Jo! I can't do that!! Blimey...how long have you known me

I remember English lessons where we had to write a précis. I used to double the size of the passage instead of reducing it

I will get back to you though and do my best

 

[DQ]

You always blow me away when I read your stuff. I have no comment - I am simply soaking it all in and learning. :thankyou: and some :hug99: just because.

 

[KD]

Aww. That means so much to me DQ. I often think that people must view me as a right twit

I don't seem to be able to stop thinking though. DH doesn't think like I do. I say "What are you thinking?" He say "nothing". How can you think 'nothing'

I go to bed and think of a black screen (nothingness). Then it turns into a blackboard. A child does a drawing on it, then another scribbles over it. I'm then thinking "Why did he scribble over it?....what made him do that...and how can I best deal with this".

And so on.......

then I think "Why on earth am I thinking about imaginery boards, children and discipline at 3:00am"

Right. Need to do a précis for Jo

 

[KD]

Health
Weight
Addiction
Desire
Desire = Action
Desire = no action
Result =

Is that okay? Did I do well?

 

[Chitty]

I agree, I know I am struggling at the minute, but your 'ramblings' really do open my eyes to another way of life with food to what I have been used to and wow Jo, I welcome the day when I am happy to not eat food. Do you worry about it being unhealthy for you, or do you think that is just rubbish and if your healthy not over weight etc etc etc, what works for you is best. I agree with the whole breakfast thing, if I eat breakfast it makes my hungry late morning. (Not talking SS days when in ketosis here, just normal days).

 

[KD]

3) Having breakfast definitely starts my hunger rolling. As does eating lunch. I can happily go all day until mid/late afternoon without food, without becoming particularly hungry. Whenever i've eaten breakfast (staying in B&Bs, for instance), I really haven't wanted it until i've started eating, but then just keep getting hungry throughout the day.

It can really get the stomach juices going can't it. It's almost as if the stomach accepts you're not eating during the night and so doesn't expect anything. Probably in a very mild state of ketosis. Then down goes breakie and it says "huh? is that all"

Having said that, often I do have breakfast. Sometimes I even have two breakfasts It really depends on what I want and how busy my day is.

That's an invaluable lesson that doing Cambridge has taught me. I too was always terrified of getting hungry, but, you know what? I've now realised that being hungry won't actually kill me!

Exactly. We build up such an aversion to it. Now I know that I don't particularly like being hungry, but it's okay. It doesn't matter.

I think we learn so much about ourselves doing a VLCD. There's so much more time in the day to contemplate what's going on in our heads and bodies. Reckon we are already one step ahead of the game

Anyway, i'm rambling far too much - I initially meant to stop at 'being hungry won't kill you'!

Aha! It's catching. Good to hear your thoughts though Jo!

 

[Maintainer]

Morning Karion,

Some random ramblings from me too.

"Diets don't work" - I've always taken these three words very literally and I DO believe them. Diets DON'T work. If one simply followed the rules of whatever diet one is following, yes of course one will lose weight, so on that front one COULD consider the diet to have "worked". But what happens next? Has the person learned about how "normal" people eat. "Healthy" eating or food preparation has not been learned. I often read menus people are posting when following, say, WW or SW or the Unit Diet, and I'm automatically checking out the lack of vitamins etc in what they're eating. They're losing weight, sure, but if they continued eating that way once their weight has been reduced, wouldn't they regain fast? How about exercise? I see some people on the VLCD boards still using powders and bars when they "oughtn't" be (BMI under 25, ought to be eating "normally" etc), to compensate for a weekend's "eating" - so for them the diet HASN'T worked in my humble opinion if the word "diet" means only "weight loss". I take the "Diets don't work" statement at face value. If the other issues which caused the person to be overweight in the first place are not looked at (emotional issues most likely, too little exercise also probably, eating the wrong things too often, overheaped plates etc), the diet won't have worked as the weight will go back on. Am I wrong?

"Eating when hungry only" - this doesn't work for me (and I include the period when I was maintaining happily and eating "healthily" and "normally"). Weekdays, if I don't eat at 1pm, hungry or not, I don't get to eat again until 7pm. That doesn't work. Where I DO think this principle works though (and again I repeat that I'm NOT a thinker but I merely presumed this was how it worked for everyone but perhaps not, just me!), is that I used to ask myself "am I hungry?" not before sitting down to a healthy well balanced meal, but before I ate a trigger food (for me, anything sweet or white carbs). So, I would try to only eat chocolate, bread or whatever else I'd associated as binge trigger foods for me IF I was hungry and IF I felt I "needed" it, rather than "wanted" it, etc etc.

I think there was something else I wanted to post, but the old brain has gone blank... (probably because I know that Karion is going to come right back at me about my "binge trigger" foods, cos I'm not meant to have them any more, but I'm writing this in a weird phase of my life as I had successfully maintained BUT then REdeveloped previously corrected eating disorder tendencies when I quit smoking this year)

 

[minilady]

Morning Karion,

Some random ramblings from me too.

"Diets don't work" - I've always taken these three words very literally and I DO believe them. Diets DON'T work. If one simply followed the rules of whatever diet one is following, yes of course one will lose weight, so on that front one COULD consider the diet to have "worked". But what happens next? Has the person learned about how "normal" people eat. "Healthy" eating or food preparation has not been learned.

Healthy eating and food prep are learned on CD, If the programme is used correctly, and a person follows the plans, then there is lots of information on healthy eating, portion size and benefits of exercise etc.

I often read menus people are posting when following, say, WW or SW or the Unit Diet, and I'm automatically checking out the lack of vitamins etc in what they're eating. They're losing weight, sure, but if they continued eating that way once their weight has been reduced, wouldn't they regain fast? How about exercise? I see some people on the VLCD boards still using powders and bars when they "oughtn't" be (BMI under 25, ought to be eating "normally" etc), to compensate for a weekend's "eating" - so for them the diet HASN'T worked in my humble opinion if the word "diet" means only "weight loss".

I do agree with the fact that people shouldn't be using the sachets etc. to maintain weight. I don't use any CD products at all now, I still have the odd binge or too, but am facing my demons. On the whole I eat healthily and enjoy doing so. I feel that CD did work for me, I've lost weight, I'm maintaining weight, I eat healthily, and I am focussing now on the reasons why I use food as a crutch. I didn't feel ready to do this pre diet, all I was concerned about was losing weight, not about why I was overweight in the first place, maybe I've done this back to front but better late than never



Sorry felt I had to add my two pennneth, as I have stated already on this thread that I disagree with the statement, that diets don't work for anyone. I actually think they can, maybe not for many, but certainly for me. By losing the weight and getting to goal, I now never want to go back to being the size I was, I therefore am looking into myself and self analysing my behaviour with food, something which I have never done, and don't think I would have done had I not dieted successfully in the first place.

Tracey
x

 

[KD]

Morning
Some random ramblings from me too.

Goody :clap:

If one simply followed the rules of whatever diet one is following, yes of course one will lose weight, so on that front one COULD consider the diet to have "worked".

Most people go on a weightloss diet to lose weight The diet claims that if they keep to it, this is exactly what will happen. Some claim to be healthy, but that is beside the point. Primarily they intend for you to lose weight.

Do the diet, you lose the weight (if you stick to it long enough)

Now, if a diet proclaimed that not only would you lose weight but you would keep it off for life when you returned to eating whatever you like and in any quantity, then yes, they have failed. But the thing is, the diets don't promise this.

It's people's expectations that are twisted.

But what happens next? Has the person learned about how "normal" people eat. "Healthy" eating or food preparation has not been learned.

Agreed, but is that what the diet promises it will do? Generally they state the claim that they will help you lose weight.

If I buy a basic computer, I will get a basic computer. I can't complain if it doesn't give me internet access, or that it doesn't work for the rest of my life. I have got what I've bought and it might do me just fine in the short term, until I upgrade.

How about exercise? I see some people on the VLCD boards still using powders and bars when they "oughtn't" be (BMI under 25, ought to be eating "normally" etc), to compensate for a weekend's "eating" - so for them the diet HASN'T worked in my humble opinion

Back the the computer analogy. So I have this basic computer and I pour 1/2 pint of coffee on it. It then doesn't work. So do I tell everyone not to buy a computer of this make as it doesn't work?

if the word "diet" means only "weight loss".

Yes! And that's what they do. We know that's not the whole story. That's just a bit of the jigsaw.

So basically, diets do work, but people are injured. When people say “I lost x amount with such and such diet, but then put it all back on”, it’s almost as if they are blaming the diet. I’m not saying people are to blame for putting the weight back on. It’s much more complex than that, but it’s not the diets fault either. I also hear IEers say “I didn’t eat mindfully….I didn’t wait until I was hungry either”. For some reason, it’s okay to admit that, they realise that they have 'fallen off the wagon' but if a dieter does it, then the diet must be failing them.

Where the diets fail is that they don't spend enough time telling you that you have to 'upgrade' after a while. This is left for you to find out yourself. People go into them with the wrong expectations, then are disappointed to find that it hasn't fulfilled.

This is what happens when the focus is totally on weight rather than health. If you focus on staying healthy and hopefully living a longer, happier life, then you can make the diet work for you. Your expectations change. You are no longer focusing on just losing that weight however much you twist the diet. You take what the diet offers, then upgrade, because there is no stopping point when you decide you want to be healthy.

If you focus on just getting to goal and when you get there, just staying there, you will probably be doing the diet forever. Looking after yourself isn't important.

This goes back to what I was saying last week. You must know what your aiming for. Why your dieting, and if you are dieting solely to get to a certain weight, then you will probably fail.

 

[KD]

By losing the weight and getting to goal, I now never want to go back to being the size I was, I therefore am looking into myself and self analysing my behaviour with food, something which I have never done, and don't think I would have done had I not dieted successfully in the first place.

Tracey
x

Same here. I wanted a temporary solution, so that I could get to a place where I felt I was worth looking after. Then I could put the long term plan into action. I couldn't do that long term plan at the start, because I couldn't see the wood for the trees. The diet cleared the way for me.

 

[JustJo]

Health
Weight
Addiction
Desire
Desire = Action
Desire = no action
Result =

Is that okay? Did I do well?

No, sorry - still don't get it. That's far too succinct actually.

I'm just like you though - always having to cut words out, and never having to worry that I won't have enough to say!

Okay, brain in gear. So, it's about recognising the addiction and embracing it - only learning that you don't have to act on it even though it's there? Something like that? Do I pass?
The big question is, though - how do you train yourself not to act on it??


Jo x

 

[Maintainer]

I think the three of us ARE actually singing from the same song sheet, despite what I've typed above. We understand that the journey isn't at its end when we reach goal weight. (Been there, done that!)

*This latest time* I lost my weight through a self-devised healthy(ish) eating plan as I needed to learn (seemingly from scratch, as it had been so long since I'd eaten healthily) how to do so. Perhaps that's why now I cast my eye over other people's food menus, whether they're dieting or not, with SUCH a critical eye. Hmm...

I like Karion's analogy above (and wish I could handle quoting things). It's true that the word "diet" obviously equates to the desired result of weight loss, but as long term "been there, done that, and put all the weight back on" dieters, we just KNOW that it's not the end of the journey.

I am looking into things "this time" which I didn't last time. Although I maintained for three years, I realise now that I leant heavily on my crutch regularly during the day (cigarettes), so I became very "wobbly" without it. Even now, six months after quitting, hearing that fellow quitters have taken up the habit again and LOST weight gives me a pang... I so don't want to hear this!

 

[JustJo]

I agree, I know I am struggling at the minute, but your 'ramblings' really do open my eyes to another way of life with food to what I have been used to and wow Jo, I welcome the day when I am happy to not eat food. Do you worry about it being unhealthy for you, or do you think that is just rubbish and if your healthy not over weight etc etc etc, what works for you is best. I agree with the whole breakfast thing, if I eat breakfast it makes my hungry late morning. (Not talking SS days when in ketosis here, just normal days).

Don't get me wrong - not every day is like that for me! I've learned to recognise my trigger foods though, and so long as I don't eat a packet of biscuits, box of cakes, etc, then I don't want them. They're the only types of foods I tend to crave, but I only crave them if I start eating them... if that makes sense.

I do sometimes wish that I could just be a 'normal' moderate person and eat three balanced meals a day, but I also recognise that i'm not. Therefore, as you suggest, I tend to think along the lines of 'well, it works for me'.


Jo x

 

[KD]

Okay, brain in gear. So, it's about recognising the addiction and embracing it - only learning that you don't have to act on it even though it's there? Something like that? Do I pass?

10/10 :clap:

The big question is, though - how do you train yourself not to act on it??

You face them instead of finding a substitute. So you don't purposely distract yourself from the feeling. You don't even grab something healthy in place of it (not when the desire is an inappropriate one..IFKWIM). You continue to do what you were doing, but take a moment to acknowledge and accept the desire.

It's there, it's part of you, it's natural. Just need to practice making AD not equal action.

Break the ritual. Actually. Later on, I think I'll write something about rituals as they were such a big part out my eating disorder.

 

[KD]

Don't get me wrong - not every day is like that for me! I've learned to recognise my trigger foods though, and so long as I don't eat a packet of biscuits, box of cakes, etc, then I don't want them. They're the only types of foods I tend to crave, but I only crave them if I start eating them... if that makes sense.

I wanted to still eat my trigger foods, so had to learn how to control them. For a long time I did't know enough about AD, but I knew that I was in a habit of eating a load instead of a little.

Many IEers fill their houses with these foods, but this was too dangerous for me. I had to conquer them one by one.

It's a great way to practice making AD=non action though, which is how I did it...even though I didn't realise at the time.

The more you practice making AD=non action, the better you get at it, so I found that it was good when I was in the mood, to bring the AD to focus. Get a particular trigger food and practice just eating one or looking at it, imagining how nice it was. Even visualising myself eating it....but then not eating it

I know I can have it, so I'm not deprived. Just practicing breaking the connection AD=action.

This really has worked for me and I don't think I have any trigger foods now. It took a while, and I have practiced doing this since I first got to goal....long before I knew about AD.

OMG Do you know...I've been sitting here thinking about what trigger foods I have now. Can't think of any Only just realised this. OMG