KD Rambles No. 2 Food addiction and peptides

[KD]

I was just thinking, this thread was for the summer holidays, and it's over so I've neglected it.

It sort of feels unfinished though. I've mentioned about AD, peptides etc, and a fair amount about areas I disagree with when it comes to IE.

Never really had time to mention how I tweaked IE to make it work for me. Now I just don't have time

But, I really had to finish off this thread with a correction or two.

When I refer to 'purist' IEers, I have since found that they aren't necessarily the purists, but IEers that do a particular form of this way of eating.

There are other IEers out there that are doing the journey the same way as I did (and do). They don't consider that they are doing a diluted version of IE, just that they are doing it sensibly

This was a great find, though I wish I knew that others were going the same way as me a couple of years ago. Could have saved myself all that thinking!

Like me, they never legalized all foods at the beginning especially. They considered it 'dangerous'. That doesn't mean that other food wasn't allowed. Everything was 'legal', but it was just a case of using some common sense along the way.

They also believe that intuitive eating is healthy eating, and the value of nutrition experts and following their advice once they felt ready.

It's long and complex, but it's been so reassuring to find that I'm not alone, and that my findings aren't totally unique to me.

Anyway, not very coherent tonight. Long hard day at the mill, but I did want to finish this thread on a high. There are people around that have actually come to the same conclusions as me and that is so reassuring.

Blimey...I'm knackered. No idea if this message makes any sense at all

Life is good

 

[westiegirl]

I have spent most of the weekend in my bed with tonsilitus and whilst too much thinking time is not necessarily a good thing, I have been reading Mrs Lards threads on secret eating and self sabotage, which lead me to this thread.

It has certainly given me a lot to think about and has resulted in some ramblings on my diary about how I am beginning to recognise my different kinds of overeating, ie my hormonal driven eating is a completely different animal to my AD eating.

KD, whilst some of what you have written doesn't apply to me because I am still trying to SS, the operative word is yet because when I get to goal I intend to not and muck it up again.

I read Beyond Chocolate in the summer and loved it, but for me, like you, some of the principles were not workable in my mind. I especially cannot relate to the diets don't work business. They do (how can you deny the proof of so many people on here for a start), it's what follows that matters. I think it might work for me by adapting the principles to suit me, once I get to goal again.

Thanks KD, for such a good thread. I've got to go away and have a bit more of a think about this AD business because it makes sort of sense to me but I need to unravel my fuzzy brain to get there.

Sorry, rambling on your thread!!!

 

[KD]

Nice to hear from you on this thread Sarah :clap:

I'm having a bit of a confidence crisis about posting at the moment, so this came at the right time for me

I especially cannot relate to the diets don't work business. They do (how can you deny the proof of so many people on here for a start), it's what follows that matters.

Exactly. This is one of the biggest problems I have with most (if not all IE methods). How can I deny that it's worked? It would be like saying the sun never shines - though that is becoming more believable by the day

If I was 'normal', then I probably would think they worked anyway, and isn't that what IE is about...being normal? Who knows, but I do know that if you ask most 'normal' people what they think an overweight person should do, and they'd probably say "go on a diet"

I came through Cambridge relatively unscathed. Perhaps the years of dieting didn't do me any favours in the head department, but I can turn that around.

If I had to give some advice now, I'd probably say that when you get to goal, take it easy. Be kind on yourself. Work through the head stuff bit by bit, only moving on when ready.

And dare I say...use a diet for a day or two if scales show a gain....then try again. I'm not saying yoyo dieting, I mean picking up a pound or two whilst you practice maintenance.

We are sensible people. We know that Cambridge is just for the short term. Nobody has to go mental thinking that everything is forever 'illegal', just that they have chosen Cambridge (or whatever diet) for the moment....until they are ready to move forward into lifelong maintenance without dieting. That works to IMO, whilst at goal. Picking up the pieces, learning from them, trying again. Refining the method until you find the slips get less, and further more, the slips are 'managable' IYKWIM.

It takes time to get to grips with it all and sort the old bonce out and there will be slips, but it's how you deal with those slips that makes the difference.

Lovely to hear on your thread that you are feeling better and buzzed

 

[canireallydothis!!]

Its good to hear it takes time, sometimes things happen so quick with VLCD's that we expect a quick result afterwards, not realising that these things take time.

Im slowly working on it, its a bit bum over boobs sometimes, but Im getting there.

Dont be a stranger KD, we all need your posts to help us x

 

[KD]

Its good to hear it takes time, sometimes things happen so quick with VLCD's that we expect a quick result afterwards, not realising that these things take time.

It takes as long as you need, but yes, you're right, we do get used to quick results and sometimes it feels like eternity getting it sorted. It's okay though. We just get on with our lives and work on the 'stuff' in between.

I have a lifetime. I'm in no rush. Just don't want to diet or put on again.

I would rather spend time sorting out the head, than eating my way through life, feeling out of control and then having to resort to a strict diet again.

This is my way of life now. I still think there is work to do, but I know where I'm going

Dont be a stranger KD, we all need your posts to help us x

Awww, thank V. Didn't plan on going, but I did get a confidence crisis about posting for a bit. Can't believe how I let it get to me like that. Guess I was so shocked. It was daft though because 2 great things came out of it.

1. I resorted to food and stopped it after one slice of toast without a problem.

2. I walked away from the argument.

Neither of those things I could have done this time last year. Actually, thinking about it, the 2nd one I think I could do....maybe. Perhaps it was because it was only me that was getting the blunt end.

I don't think I've quite shaken it off yet. Forum life is always full of ups and downs, especially if they are good forums where people care about each other. I think I've reached furious level twice on here, last weekend and some months ago. Both times involved the same group of people insinuating that I'm not doing this weight business correctly. The first one was from someone telling me that my way wasn't working and I needed to move over to PMcK.

It's odd. I look at my ticker, and I think I'm doing just fine

Okay...shut up Karion. Move on

 

[Barb]

I think one of the hardest things for a 'serial (not cereal) dieter' to learn is that it is ok to take our time. We always want results fast - obviously on CD that happens up to a point, but generally what took years to amass takes months to get rid of!
Who hasn't thought ' If I'd started the diet this time last year by now I would be slim' well, ok then start now and by this time next year you will be. Thats me telling me that is! I am a terror for working out what I could be/ should be by a given time. That does not help.

I cannot get involved in the great IE debate really because I don't have sufficient knowledge. All I know is that when I am given total freedom I take advantage of it. I don't think ' oh there are no rules but i think I'll just have the one biscuit' or ' gosh bit of luck I can have what I like, now what do I fancy, oh yes half a biscuit' It doesn't work like that.

When the main battle is won and the weight is down, then strategies will have to be learnt, but I know how I got fat, by not being careful and aware enough. Not doing that again, ever.

In my diary thread the other day Karion said ' you only have to do the diet once properly' - I've thought about that a lot. We all act as though a diet is a life sentance, it's not. Of course to lose weight we have to eat differently and to maintain a lower weight we have to continue to eat carefully. If we do again what made us fat in the first place we will get fat again. Thats how it works!

The thing is if it's done properly, once, then hopefully good habits have been learned and bad ones have been unlearned.

I learn a lot from you Karion, keep going with the help. We all need it!

Love

 

[minilady]

Hi KD

I haven't been posting much of late. Just thought I'd pop by to say hello :wavey: Hope all is well with you. I'm still at goal and am still using your techniques along with a little exercise etc. to maintain my weight. At this present time I'm a happy lady Haven't binged for a long time, in fact not sure when the last time was, I still could sometimes, but the need is becoming less and the desires are not so strong.

I have a lot to thank you for

The half term break is coming up, so am hoping to read more of your thoughts then.

Take care

Tracey
x

 

[KD]

Oh excellent!!!

We can analysis till the cows come home, but it's taking the bits that work for you and putting it into practice that makes it work. Well done you!!

 

[debz32]

Hi KD - stumbled upon this thread....and have just read it from start to finish....am I sad ???!!!

anyway...just wanted to THANK YOU for so much interesting, informative advice in one place - ur a star !!

keep it coming....

love

Debz xx

 

[chunkychicken]

Hi Karion

Followed a series of links to this thread and have sat and read from start to finish.
My goodness lady - I think you should seriously consider running workshops or something.
I am a LL'er and just into week 3 of their Route to Managment programme, so this topic has come at a great time for me. Currently I swing wildly from being very uptight about the whole thing (well terrified to be honest) and being a little too laid back IYKWIM?
It is fantastic to hear that maintance is possible with the correct vigilance and I think the Karion brand of straight talking advice is exactly what I need right now.
Please share some more I am really interested. Especially in how you have modified IE to suit your lifestyle. In fact any pearls of wisdom at all you come across I would be most grateful to hear.
Many thanks
Laura

 

[KD]

Well hello Debz and Laura Glad you made some sense from this thread and could find some of it useful

Especially in how you have modified IE to suit your lifestyle.

Okay, so I sorted the Binge/compulsive eating disorder out using the AD technique and also 'the pause'. Not sure whether I've mentioned the pause

That's when you think you are hungry, or you want something and you just hang on a while. It's not as 'strict' as the AD technique as you can find something else to do instead of facing it immediately. I didn't do the pause until I had mastered the AD part.

The pause is a great technique too as it gives you control and helps you to realise the difference between false hunger and real hunger. False hunger usually goes away again. Real hunger doesn't. False hunger also makes me want certain unhealthy foods, but real hunger makes me want anything and I'm even more satisfied with healthier fare.

So, having sorted them out and finding I didn't need to do the AD thing anymore, I felt I was in more of a position to tackle IE way of eating.

After all, if I've sorted out my food issues, then intuitive eating is the only thing left...it just comes naturally.

Thinking about it, there were a few more techniques I used along the way. Giving a moments thought to why I wanted certain foods. Taking note of how I felt when I was eating them...could anything else fill that same need etc. Again, thinking how I felt after. Did they make me feel sluggish? Happy? etc. I did this with the 'good' and the 'bad' foods. It wasn't a long drawn out exercise..just a moments glance into my head.

All the time I was doing this, I was allowing myself any foods I wanted. That didn't mean I had to have them...just knew I could if I wanted.

So...that finished, I found I really felt better when I ate when hungry. I understood what was the head stuff and what was the body stuff IYKWIM.

I get up in the morning and I no longer think of food. I only really think about it when I am hungry. It doesn't consume my every thought anymore.

When I am hungry I eat. I eat what I want, but it is nearly always healthy food...because that is what makes me feel better in the long run.

Sometimes I have something that in my dieting days I called 'bad' food, but it doesn't really do the same thing as it did before. It doesn't taste so good, I don't have the need to repeat over and over again.

If I'm going to be out and I think I might be hungry before I get a chance to eat properly, I keep a few almonds which seem to tide me over. Unbelievable isn't it...a few almonds is enough? It would never have been before, but then before food wasn't really what I needed. I just thought I did.

When I know I'm hungry (trying to get on with something..tummy rubbling...can't concentrate), then I eat. I notice what I'm eating...I eat a little slower. I stop when I'm satisfied.

Still not good at throwing food away, but I'm mighty good at judging what I will need before I set it on a plate.

I'm not always 'really' hungry when I eat, but there is always some level of body hunger there. I don't always eat the foods that I dearly want at that time as it just isn't practical, but I no longer eat foods that I couldn't care for, just because they are there.

I never feel deprived. I don't fear food. I can have a small slice of cake and enjoy it without even thinking of going back for more...and if I do go back because it was super delish, then the next mealtime is much later or even not needed because it keeps me going longer.

I could have done this IE without that brain work (AD etc), but I was scared of gaining weight whilst I worked through the initial stages of IE (as in making everything legal straight away). Okay...everything was legal, but I had to use some small steps along the way so that I didn't feel the need to eat the contents of Tesco before I mastered it.

Addiction is scary and not something I wanted to play with. My food addiction tied in with my eating disorders (binge/compulsive eating)

 

[KD]

I was thinking about this last message of mine last night and decided it needed a massive edit. I've been unwell for a couple of weeks and it's getting increasingly harder to muster up an inclination to type. No idea how I managed such a long one yesterday

Now I can't be bothered to edit it, so I'll just add something quick

Once I sorted out the compulsive/binge eating issues, I found that I it was relatively easy to eat intuitively without tweaking.

 

[chunkychicken]

WOW Karion, that is a heap of useful information - I have to say a big thank you for sharing this with us all.
In particular - I really like "the pause" - I think it is something I would do well to learn and quickly. I can be very impulsive with food and not really give myself the time to assess whether I actually wanted the food or not and whether I was happy with my choice before it is already on its way to my stomach.

I find the thought of "legalising" food all very scary and liberating at the same time. My aim is to be able to live a life where food is just food and not linked into to feeling righteous or guilty depending on the choice. You appear to have mastered this completely and it must be such a relief to not be ruled by the food monster anymore.
I will get there.
The difference with this diet compared to others is that I am actually being active in trying to change my habits instead of passively sitting and watching all the calorie counting and forbidden food groups and then wondering where it all went wrong.
I can honestly say I have never even attempted to listen to my body and assess why I desire or feel something and how that affects what I eat. I naively thought this whole weight loss malarky was a simple calories in vs calories out equation (its what various drs and nutritionists have told me my whole life) but to really make a change you have to not only do all that, but also look inward, assess and make changes to your way of thinking and then maintain that new way of thinking forever.... my god, no wonder WW never worked!!!!

AD technique ... God it makes so much sense I can't understand why it never occurred to me before. Well actually I can, I have been so busy feeling sorry for myself and playing the victim regading my weight that it never even ocurred to me that in order to make a change I would have to say NO to myself occasionally. It is such a simple concept. Just because you want something doesn't mean you have to have it. A gazillion lightbulbs went off in my head when I read this. And to be honest a few fizzles of self disgust that I let myself get so big whilst blaming the world and its wife for my condition - when it was a simple as that. I was a spoilt brat who denied myself nothing even though I knew deep down the damage it was doing. I work in a cancer hospital and everyday I see patients standing outside the front doors still hooked up to their chemotherapy smoking a cigarette. I would pompously shake my head in wonder at how anyone could be so stupid and reckless.... then I would go home via the drive thu and buy enough food for four people whilst pretending to be on my mobile taking orders from imaginary friends in case the people at the window figured out I was going to eat it all myself!!!!
It never once occurred to me to just think, yeah I quite fancy a take out - but I'll leave it for tonight. If the thought crossed my brain - the food would just materialise in front of me as soon as physically possible. The blame lies sqaurely at my door. Nowhere else.

It feels good to just get that all out - it may seem trivial to others - but that is a big step forward for me. I feel for the first time I can remember that I AM in control, what happens to me is up to me. I was the only one making myself miserable about my size, so the inverse is also possible, I am the only person who can make myself happy about the way I look. Luck, fate, and all that has nothing to do with it.....

Thank you so muck Karion - you have opened my eyes.
Sorry for the rambling post - but I feel totally great now....

Laura

 

[KD]

In particular - I really like "the pause" - I think it is something I would do well to learn and quickly. I can be very impulsive with food and not really give myself the time to assess whether I actually wanted the food or not and whether I was happy with my choice before it is already on its way to my stomach.

That was me too! It was as if wanting something inevitably meant I had to have it, but this has a completely different mindset. I'm not telling myself I can't eat, just putting the desire in a different corner so to speak. Separating the two.

My aim is to be able to live a life where food is just food and not linked into to feeling righteous or guilty depending on the choice. You appear to have mastered this completely and it must be such a relief to not be ruled by the food monster anymore.

Most the time I think I have. I seem to manage okay, but still have daytime nightmares about what would happen if I lost the faith Sometimes it is harder and I have to go through the processes again. I think this is quite normal though for someone who has spent years battling with food. I hope it is anyway!

to really make a change you have to not only do all that, but also look inward, assess and make changes to your way of thinking and then maintain that new way of thinking forever....

Well, I suppose it is about calories in vs calories out, but that's just the scientific bit. The intuitive eating and sorting the head out makes it workable in the long term.

Just because you want something doesn't mean you have to have it. A gazillion lightbulbs went off in my head when I read this.

It's strange because I think there comes a time in your life when the words mean more. They make sense to you. I think that if I was told this 20 years ago, I would have just said 'obviously' but then continued doing what I had always done.

Suddenly, all the things that have been said over the years 'change lifestyle', 'sort the head out' etc etc, makes sense and I could see what they were talking about.

I think in the past I just gave a blanket reply of 'easier said than done'. But then I didn't have the tools to help and I did realise how much damage I was doing to myself.

I work in a cancer hospital and everyday I see patients standing outside the front doors still hooked up to their chemotherapy smoking a cigarette. I would pompously shake my head in wonder at how anyone could be so stupid and reckless.... then I would go home via the drive thu and buy enough food for four people whilst pretending to be on my mobile taking orders from imaginary friends in case the people at the window figured out I was going to eat it all myself!!!!

Oh goodness yes. It's the same isn't it, and I'm not sure that I would have looked for the answers had I been given a diagnoses of death if I didn't sort it out. Even that wasn't enough.

It doesn't matter what people tell you you should do, or even what you know you should do, there just comes a 'right time' when you can take it on board and just do it.

I'm not saying that it suddenly becomes simple, just that you find the strength from somewhere.

 

[chunkychicken]

Suddenly, all the things that have been said over the years 'change lifestyle', 'sort the head out' etc etc, makes sense and I could see what they were talking about.

It doesn't matter what people tell you you should do, or even what you know you should do, there just comes a 'right time' when you can take it on board and just do it.

I'm not saying that it suddenly becomes simple, just that you find the strength from somewhere.

You are so right Karion with this - I feel like this is the first time that I am actually understanding these (somewhat cliched) phrases that I have been hearing all my life regarding successful weight loss. I think it was more of a case of "la la la I'm not listening" to be fair most of the time. The journey just seemed too far and the tasks to massive to ever conquer - so typical me..... "why bother!"

Well now i have bothered and for the first time in 10 years I am trying to maintain a weight that I am not disgusted with. No wonder it feels different this time.... it is because it feels achievable. I am no longer staring down the barrel of 10 stone to lose, it is a fresh start. Perhaps this is why I finally feel so positive that I can make a difference. Effort in = results out and in the short term (not 2-5 years at WW so it seemed before LL anyway).

Thanks a lot Karion for sharing your time and energy on this - I am sure you must be fed up to the back teeth of relative newbies like me picking your brains! I can't help it you see. You are one of the rare, mythical and shiny people that actually DID IT.

Have a good day
Laura

 

[KD]

I am no longer staring down the barrel of 10 stone to lose, it is a fresh start. Perhaps this is why I finally feel so positive that I can make a difference.

That's true. I had to get myself into a position of feeling I was worth the effort. I just couldn't muster up the energy at 8 stone heavier.

I am sure you must be fed up to the back teeth of relative newbies like me picking your brains! I can't help it you see.

Far from it People rarely pick my brains, which is understandable

Sometimes I feel like I'm looking through a hole in the wall watching groups of people walking by wondering where the treasure is. I keep shouting "down road A...down road A", but I guess they don't hear, feel road A is too difficult, or think "who on earth is that loony who keeps shouting" There again, perhaps they are looking for a different sort of treasure.

I used to jump on peoples thread with all my head stuff, but just embarrassed myself, so I keep it here now. You never know who might be reading it and be able to use it at some time.

I'm not on much at the moment (other problems), but it's so good to see interest. Makes me feel I haven't wasted my time

You'll make it Laura, because you are looking for the answers. You're not assuming that you've found them in the diet....because they aren't there. The magic ingredient in diets is weightloss. Not really maintenance.

 

[minilady]

That's true. I had to get myself into a position of feeling I was worth the effort. I just couldn't muster up the energy at 8 stone heavier.

Far from it People rarely pick my brains, which is understandable

I'm glad you still have some brains to pick at after I'd picked away for weeks


I used to jump on peoples thread with all my head stuff, but just embarrassed myself, so I keep it here now. You never know who might be reading it and be able to use it at some time.

I'm sure many many people have benefitted from your experiences and I am glad that I stumbled across your path.

I'm not on much at the moment (other problems), but it's so good to see interest. Makes me feel I haven't wasted my time

Don't ever think that your posts are a waste of time, I'm sure there are many of us who have benefitted from your posts, lots of people just read and don't comment.

I hope your problems are soon sorted KD, feels a bit meaningless typing that on here to someone you don't actually know, but it's typed with sincerity.

You'll make it Laura, because you are looking for the answers. You're not assuming that you've found them in the diet....because they aren't there. The magic ingredient in diets is weightloss. Not really maintenance.

Take care KD

Tracey
xxx

 

[KD]

Thankyou Tracey. Guess I'm a bit weird at the moment

Shame about KD. Full of great ideas, but totally whacky

 

[chunkychicken]

Far from it People rarely pick my brains, which is understandable

You silly sausage!!! You are a talented deep thinker. Every thread I have read of yours is full of ideas and nuggets of info that you have clearly worked out through hours of head work. Why on earth would anyone not want to take advantage of the head start that gives us Karion followers???

Sometimes I feel like I'm looking through a hole in the wall watching groups of people walking by wondering where the treasure is. I keep shouting "down road A...down road A", but I guess they don't hear, feel road A is too difficult, or think "who on earth is that loony who keeps shouting" There again, perhaps they are looking for a different sort of treasure.

We are all looking for the same treasure - but some of us don't know it yet. There is a definate process with this diet that we all have to go through. Namely in my case..
1. disbelief that it will work but a desparate hope that it might.
2. total absorption in numbers, graphs, dates and dress sizes and not much else.
3. boredom and lapsing. Eventually winning through to the next stage but slightly more tired than you were.
4. (where I am now) looking for answers back in the scary world of food and genuine terror that the weight will go back on and then some.
5. returning to everyday life with a whole raft of tools and techniques to arm yourself with to stay slim forever.

It depends where people are on their journey mentally as to when they are ready to hear that there is still a world of work ahead of them. Road A as you said - just seems too much to cope with. I think though at some point (maybe not even the first time around) everyone realises that the weight will not just stay off on its own. Thats when we all come looking for Karion!!!! LOL

I used to jump on peoples thread with all my head stuff, but just embarrassed myself, so I keep it here now. You never know who might be reading it and be able to use it at some time.

I have never read anything of yours where you have embarrassed yourself.. and I have been hunting down your threads actively (oh dear sound like a stalker! Hope you understand). Sometimes you just have to find someone who talks your kind of sense before the message sinks in. The way you put your point accross makes a lot of sense to me, others may have told me similar stuff before, but I just hasn't "caught on" for some reason. You can be very negative about yourself and your hard won wisdom... I don't know why this is??? In this thread alone you have several members hanging off your every word.... you should be proud of yourself that you represent one of the few who have successfully completed the "full cycle" of a VLCD!! I for one think we are lucky to have you! You could have swaggered off into the sunset with all the answers and kept them all to yourself, but you chose to still come here and help us poor stragglers through. I am very grateful for this - as, I am sure, are many others.

I'm not on much at the moment (other problems), but it's so good to see interest. Makes me feel I haven't wasted my time

I hope your other problems resolve quickly... like I said your time is always appreciated here.

 

[KD]

You silly sausage!!!

Just a mere chipolata

advantage of the head start that gives us Karion followers???

Talking about followers. I lost Year 6 today One minute they are in a line behind me going down the corridor, the next minute they've escaped

Hope they found something productive to do

No, seriously. I did find them in the IT Suite

Whoops. Must go. 'Miss' is wanted in HT office in a mo Grrrrr